Suited connectors

Your opinion on these? Good limping hands with or without position? Do you ever raise these in late position with few limpers behind?

I'm playing like a rock right now (15/6) and making good progress but I'm thinking of expanding into these hands as an experiment. Any tips, ideas? I've been told treat them the same as low pairs - cheap flop good, get out quick if nothing going on. Correct?

I usually limp them in position and check-fold a no-good flop.

However, I sometimes like to use them to improve (or, rather, to bring down) my table image. If I have been camping/had cold cards, I will raise them in position to up my PFR%. I never do it with more than 1 limper, though, and I usually want a read.

My favorite is to do this against a tight set-hunter, then I can usually steal the flop if he calls preflop. If he hits his set he'll let me know so that I can fold easily, making his preflop call a mistake b/c he's got little or no implied odds.

It really depends on a lot. I will limp behind a few limpers from MP+ and against 2 or less in LP I typically raise them. Raising them gives you another way to take down the pot and allows you to build up a pot for when you do hit strongly. On the flop I typically check/fold unless I hit a strong draw, two pair, or am heads up and the texture of the flop is good for a cbet.

interesting. no one said, "i fold them". but I guess the question really is, "I'm going to start playing suited connectors" what do you recommend?

my suggestions only apply to NL ring.

FIRST, only play it late. Basic rules are you want lots of players in the pot because it only Hits rarely so you need good odds of getting paid off if you hit. This means if you limp it in mid position, you are making a bad choice - even if you have limpers ahead of you. Because if someone behind you raises and all the limpers fold then you have to: (a) fold, waste of money or (b) call a raise with few players inthe pot and out of position relative to the raiser.

The reason you play this hand late is for INFORMATION. The more the better - whether you are going to limp it, fold it or raise it.

Now, regarding raising it. You will Most Likely NOT hit anything on the flop. If you are going to raise preflop with the intention of continuation betting postflop to make other players fold then this has nothing to do with suited connectors, you can do that with any 2 cards. So, keep that distinction in mind.

The real danger with limping suited connectors in late position with the right # of players in the pot in order to catch a straight or quality flush, is that it never stays that way.

First you compromise on position. Then you compromise on suitedness, then you decide that with fewer players you can raise them instead of limping them (which makes it a pure play that has nothing to do with suited connectors). Then instead of dropping them when half hit (or when the odds aren't there) you stick around; or better yet lead out the betting and play your hopes and dreams (generally weakly and in a way that says "hey I'm on the draw here, just trying to cover it up with a weak ass bet")

And then what you thought was "playing suited connectors" turns into "doing whatever your ego says to do".

Hope that helps. The summary is play them in late pos. only and only if you have the odds to do so. Drop them when they miss. If you do that then you can have fun. If you want to use them as a lauching pad for a random, agressive game, then just start playing that way and don't worry about suited connectors.

Technically 78s is as good as 66 preflop with it comes to odds of hitting. However, it's EASY to lay down 66 when you don't make a set and it's HARD to lay down 78 when you hit top pair, then catch a possible back door flush on the turn... so you end up paying good money for weak cards.

gl.

as far as tourneys, harrington mentions raising them utg/early to mix it up. as far as ring, i'll limp them anywhere if i feel i can see the flop cheap, and raise them when it tightens up. but i suck so....

as far as harrington, if you want to play them that way, then have a watch with a second hand on it and anytime the second hand is 1-5 seconds then raise your suited connectors like you would any quality hand. if it says 6-60 fold.

Again, if you are blind stealing for a reason, with position and into someone who knows how to fold then suited connectors aren't necessary for that.

I play harrington tactics down the line in MTT and I disregard suited connectors under tj. They just aren't worth the effort. If I want to steal I can do it with 72 as easy as 89s.

Originally Posted by Aok

Now, regarding raising it. You will Most Likely NOT hit anything on the flop. If you are going to raise preflop with the intention of continuation betting postflop to make other players fold then this has nothing to do with suited connectors, you can do that with any 2 cards. So, keep that distinction in mind.

Even though it's true that it is just a move that you could make with any two, I like to have the chance to flop something good in case I'm called. Now, I realize that my odds of flopping something decent with SCs are not good, but they are way better than if I hold 72o.

So I don't really like the distinction you're making - I like to have the combination of the right setting to make a play and the possibility of flopping a hidden monster in case the play doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Aok

The real danger with limping suited connectors in late position with the right # of players in the pot in order to catch a straight or quality flush, is that it never stays that way.

I think that even though we are in the Beginners Circle, we have to give people some credit. The guy is asking for advice on how to play them, for me that implies that he is gonna follow some of the advice given and not go insane with speculative hands.

What you are talking about here is really the fundamental discipline needed to play poker, regardless of what two cards you hold. If you start making compromises, then you don't have good enough discipline. That is a topic for another thread, although it is so important that it could be pointed out in every single thread in this forum (in fact, I'm gonna go ahead and put it in my sig so that I can remind myself of it whenever I post).

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this post, so I'll just end here.

I was at one of your $25 Stars tables last night, Halv - you had a decent stack and I went Busto. Sigh.

Originally Posted by biondino

I was at one of your $25 Stars tables last night, Halv - you had a decent stack and I went Busto. Sigh.

Until I came back a few hours later and lost ~1.5 buyin. OK, so it mostly came down to set vs straight, flopped top trips w/AK vs runner runner flush, but the real reason was that I was too tired to play properly - lack of discipline is my number one leak and the one that should be easiest to fix.

To keep the off topic chat going, what's your s/n at stars?

Originally Posted by aokrongly

interesting. no one said, "i fold them". but I guess the question really is, "I'm going to start playing suited connectors" what do you recommend?

my suggestions only apply to NL ring.

FIRST, only play it late. Basic rules are you want lots of players in the pot because it only Hits rarely so you need good odds of getting paid off if you hit. This means if you limp it in mid position, you are making a bad choice - even if you have limpers ahead of you. Because if someone behind you raises and all the limpers fold then you have to: (a) fold, waste of money or (b) call a raise with few players inthe pot and out of position relative to the raiser.

The reason you play this hand late is for INFORMATION. The more the better - whether you are going to limp it, fold it or raise it.

Now, regarding raising it. You will Most Likely NOT hit anything on the flop. If you are going to raise preflop with the intention of continuation betting postflop to make other players fold then this has nothing to do with suited connectors, you can do that with any 2 cards. So, keep that distinction in mind.

The real danger with limping suited connectors in late position with the right # of players in the pot in order to catch a straight or quality flush, is that it never stays that way.

First you compromise on position. Then you compromise on suitedness, then you decide that with fewer players you can raise them instead of limping them (which makes it a pure play that has nothing to do with suited connectors). Then instead of dropping them when half hit (or when the odds aren't there) you stick around; or better yet lead out the betting and play your hopes and dreams (generally weakly and in a way that says "hey I'm on the draw here, just trying to cover it up with a weak ass bet")

And then what you thought was "playing suited connectors" turns into "doing whatever your ego says to do".

Hope that helps. The summary is play them in late pos. only and only if you have the odds to do so. Drop them when they miss. If you do that then you can have fun. If you want to use them as a lauching pad for a random, agressive game, then just start playing that way and don't worry about suited connectors.

Technically 78s is as good as 66 preflop with it comes to odds of hitting. However, it's EASY to lay down 66 when you don't make a set and it's HARD to lay down 78 when you hit top pair, then catch a possible back door flush on the turn... so you end up paying good money for weak cards.

gl.

Thanks - exactly what I was looking for.

On Stars I'm efil4elbmow - I was three to your left, I think, but never really got going and since my entire BR at Stars was $25.90 before I sat down, I wasn't exactly able to reload