Stop looking at your cards!

I talk poker everyday with my friend and we started talking about hand ranges/calling ranges etc. This led to flop texture discussions and how different ranges hit different flops. I then came up with the question of what if you couldn't see your cards? How would that change how you play.

Your starting hand is only one factor, we have position chip stacks and ranges we put people on. We quickly came up with the following few ideas.


1. We would steal more from the button and cutoff.
2. If we were going to play we would only be calling small bets in position.
3. We would be forced to focus more on other peoples ranges, betting patterns and flop texture.
4. We would be floating connected flops and suited flops more so we could bet more scare cards.

I don't know how relevant any of this is to a real game but it's not a strategy guide, just an exercise to get you thinking about all the other factors. Our idea was that too many people overvalue the cards in relation to the other factors, particularly at lower stakes - me included. It really got me looking at the game a different way. Instead of the typical post a hand history.

Comments welcome.....

if you can't see your cards, your starting preflop hand adjustments will pretty much be useless because you're keeping it at ATC even though you're changing the frequencies at which you do it, which pretty much takes away all of your showdown winnings which makes up like all of the money at lower stakes, so no, this isn't the best idea

edit-sorry yea thinking about this is a good exercise

It's just an exercise that forces you to look at all the other factors, no one is advocating this. This was in the context of range distributions and flop texture. There are a lot of posts about how do I play A-Q or J-J etc....

I was looking at it more like a tight UTG range doesn't hit flushes very well, but a calling range does so then based on flop texture I can come up with a plan for the hand whether I have hit or not. This is all info you get without even looking at your cards.

I flat a lot in position with PP and SC and miss on a shit ton of flops, but If I look at the other factors I can often times still pick up the pot by making a play based on them.

Cliff notes: There are other factors in poker besides your cards.

Your cards only matter as blockers unless you get to showdown.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Your cards only matter as blockers unless you get to showdown.

This is completely untrue. Your equity on each street greatly impacts how you play, regardless of how often you expect to get to showdown.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Your cards only matter as blockers unless you get to showdown.

Outlaw I would be really interested in hearing you explain this in detail please. I am assuming you have a theory or philosophy to which you base this statement. Please do share!

I suggest we do a test - simply cover the hole cards on the screen with some sticky paper, and play some low stakes (although not the lowest), something like NL50. It'd be quite interesting to see the results after say 30,000 hands. I actually think I might try this just for fun thx for an idea

It really helped me be more effective with c-betting. When to and not to based on flop texture range and preflop action. A lot of micro donks default play is to c-bet like 100% and they do it in bad spots all the time. It also helped me a lot in playing back and picking them off when the story didnt make sense.

Originally Posted by ggpokergg

I suggest we do a test - simply cover the hole cards on the screen with some sticky paper, and play some low stakes (although not the lowest), something like NL50. It'd be quite interesting to see the results after say 30,000 hands. I actually think I might try this just for fun thx for an idea

What's your screen name?

Originally Posted by ggpokergg

I suggest we do a test - simply cover the hole cards on the screen with some sticky paper, and play some low stakes (although not the lowest), something like NL50. It'd be quite interesting to see the results after say 30,000 hands. I actually think I might try this just for fun thx for an idea

with all the reespect for all the players and their experience, but anyone that will do this, after 30k hands will be broke world champ, univers poker god, who ever you are, your hand is a big factor in playing the game besides good reads on the opp and intepreting the board texture. you need all to be a winner, not having one of these is a straight way to going broke

You'd get mauled at 50s. Funny how this is posted in the BC, which covers up to 25NL, and ggpoker is talking as if it'd be okay to 'drop down' to 50s and give the no-peekin-at-hole-cards thing a whirl.

If you wanted to dick around with this, do it at 10s at most. I still don't see what it would accomplish; it seems to me if you took a proper approach to learning, you would pick up and develop the skills in question nonetheless.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

This is completely untrue. Your equity on each street greatly impacts how you play, regardless of how often you expect to get to showdown.

If we don't know our cards we can't play based on our own equity which is what the OP is talking about. It would be nice to know our blockers though, so that we could more accurately talk about our opponents ranges.

Based on OPs exercise, you still have to play as if you don't know your cards.. but only have a perceived range that the villain is using... and he never knows your exact holding.

Just make sure if you use this exercise, that your opponent is at least on level 2.. otherwise you are leveling yourself.

BTW, I really like this thread.

There are plenty of videos of players doing this at stakes where people are capable of folding, improva and AEJones come to mind. I don't think it would do any good at any stake where betting your value is the only real option in betting. Understanding the concept is nice, but until you can actually do this vs competent opponents, I don't think it's worth shit to try.

Originally Posted by jyms

There are plenty of videos of players doing this at stakes where people are capable of folding, improva and AEJones come to mind. I don't think it would do any good at any stake where betting your value is the only real option in betting. Understanding the concept is nice, but until you can actually do this vs competent opponents, I don't think it's worth shit to try.

<agree>

But it doesn't hurt to start thinking about it.. or else we never get to that level.

Originally Posted by jyms

\Understanding the concept is nice, but until you can actually do this vs competent opponents, I don't think it's worth shit to try.

this is the best thing i heard and the pure truth. you can quads at some levels and opp dont care, he's still gonna call his Ax to SD

I heard the Annette15 story when I started playing and tried this in a Stars $1/45man. In one hand I shoved the turn against this guy and he snapped me, turns out I had bottom two and rivered the boat. Lol, that was so funny!