SNG player looking to learn cash, tips?

Hi all,

I'm a SNG player who finally wants to take the plunge and learn to play cash. Whilst low buyin SNGs are fun (and pretty soft at the moment), there must be more to poker than pushing preflop!

A bit about me - I started out playing $0.01/$0.02 microstakes with a $20 transfer from a friend, ground that up to $100 over about 10,000 hands then started playing SNGs and haven't really played cash since. My BR is now around $1100-1200, I'm currently playing the $16 turbos on Stars but I feel an inability to play cash is starting to become a real deficiency and learning cash will help my SNG game anyway.

A few quick questions:

- I've read Renton's NL guide, what other posts should I read?
- I remember that Party's 25NL games were reputed to be very soft indeed, but now the US fish can't play there is 25NL at Stars a reasonable place to jump in? I'd like to play somewhere where the play even vaguely resembles real money, I remember the microstakes played like a play money table most times.
- What are the major adjustments that you need to make from SNGs to cash? (I'm talking about NOT doing things like "QQ, weeee push preflop" and "AK, A on flop, push flop"). I've been told that cash games play sort of like level 1 at an SNG but even then chip preservation is paramount, particularly at the turbos that I play.

Thanks in advance!

Study the hands posted on here for comment. Ring and SnG's play differently. I started as a SnG player and switched to ring after a year. Took me a while to become a winning player at ring.

oh jeez

You could always play the non-US fish at party. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by taipan168

- What are the major adjustments that you need to make from SNGs to cash? (I'm talking about NOT doing things like "QQ, weeee push preflop" and "AK, A on flop, push flop"). I've been told that cash games play sort of like level 1 at an SNG but even then chip preservation is paramount, particularly at the turbos that I play.

First off, welcome to FTR!!!

You need to learn to play the turn and river, that's all. Pre-flop and flop are kinda-sorta similar to early in a SnG. Reading NLHT&P helped my analytical analysis of play.

Or, "make sets, get paide" if you will.

another one on the bandwagon lol. you generally don't want to play big pots without the nuts or near-nuts. give enough action so that you get action on monsters, but don't give so much action that you are a spew-bot.

raise lots of pretty hands in position
implied odds are the SHIT!
play 6 max.
full ring sucks =)

stacks are deep now

Deeper stacks -> more postflop play -> more complex decisions.

Position is very important, you can control the pot size and you have more information.

Implied odds is much bigger but so is reverse implied odds.

dont stack off with one pair unless given a reason
implied odds rule, the fish will pay you.
if you got it all in with a set you played it right.
The turn is the important street for pot building
lead with big hands, dont c/c or slow play, stack size is much more important than in tourney play.

Believe fish when they raise.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

stack size is much more important than in tourney play.

This is not true.
But, since you are a tourney player you will be aware of the stack sizes, which is still important.

Also, you can gamble more with the short stacks. You don't have to be 65% + to win the hand because of ICM, you only have to be 51% for it to be +eV.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Or, "make sets, get paid" if you will.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

if you got it all in with a set you played it right.

What, like this?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($14.35)
CO ($10.10)
Button ($7.60)
SB ($9.35)
BB ($9.20)
UTG ($5.05)
Hero ($15.45)
MP1 ($9.45)
MP2 ($8.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T, T.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.40, 4 folds, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.25) 6, T, 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.6, MP2 raises to $2.6, BB folds, Hero raises to $9.7, MP2 calls $5.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($19.15) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($19.15) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $19.15

Results below:
Hero has Tc Td (three of a kind, tens).
MP2 has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $19.15.

Originally Posted by taipan168

What, like this?

Nice, 2 things.

You may want to raise more pre-flop, 4x is good at higher stakes, but you may have to go 5-8BB depending on the table so you're isolated more often.

On the flop start betting 3/4-full pot instead of 1/2 - 3/4. So with a connected, 2 flush board just pot it. A raggy disconnected board bet 3/4 pot.

I basically only use the 1/2 pot against weak/tighties who always fold if they miss and always check-raise when they hit.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

On the flop start betting 3/4-full pot instead of 1/2 - 3/4. So with a connected, 2 flush board just pot it. A raggy disconnected board bet 3/4 pot.

Definitely something people have been telling me since I started playing cash.

Two things:

1. Playing at that limit, more than half the players are just banging around chips with a limited concept of what they are doing. So, just play your strong hands strong and fold your weak hands. Don't worry about getting creative. (in the mean time study study and get ready for the move up in stakes)
2. Do not raise under the gun with 10 10 in a full ring game. With 10 10 from early position you are looking to play it the same way as you would any other small pp. If rags come and noone has raised preflop, you are probably good, so bet it then.

Originally Posted by Elexshun

2. Do not raise under the gun with 10 10 in a full ring game. With 10 10 from early position you are looking to play it the same way as you would any other small pp. If rags come and noone has raised preflop, you are probably good, so bet it then.

Some cash players I have talked to disagree with this and like raising TT UTG. I would raise it because it's a strong hand and also because I have the ability to get away from it if it's clear I'm beat post flop.

Uh ... then again I suck at cash.

OMG I have so much to learn

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Uh ... then again I suck at cash.

Maintaining a positive attitude helps, too.

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Originally Posted by Elexshun

2. Do not raise under the gun with 10 10 in a full ring game. With 10 10 from early position you are looking to play it the same way as you would any other small pp. If rags come and noone has raised preflop, you are probably good, so bet it then.

Some cash players I have talked to disagree with this and like raising TT UTG. I would raise it because it's a strong hand and also because I have the ability to get away from it if it's clear I'm beat post flop.

Uh ... then again I suck at cash.

some cash players raise all pairs from all positions...gasp!

Originally Posted by taipan168

OMG I have so much to learn

ME TOOOO

omg i have rent to pay this was such a bad idea ahhhh

Originally Posted by vqc

play 6 max.

i made the switch from sng´s to cash games 2 months ago. i felt more comfortable at fr than at 6max. when multitabling your better farming on full rings to get used to the cash games.

Come play at Party. There's no need to worry since the US fish left. Plenty still to go around. They do seem slightly more aggressive though.

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

Originally Posted by Kits

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

as in it is easier to learn 6max then fr? i hope that's not what you mean.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Kits

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

as in it is easier to learn 6max then fr? i hope that's not what you mean.

No - as in I think I learnt a lot more about playing poker at 6max rather than full ring. Probably didn't word that too well.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Kits

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

as in it is easier to learn 6max then fr? i hope that's not what you mean.

I agree martin.
For an experienced SNG player the transition to 6-max should be smooth. At least in consideration of hand selection. The same starting hands will be a bit on the loose side in FR.
(i.e. marginal hands going up in value with a smaller field.)

Other factors might involve bonus-clearing potential and a desire to multi-table, in which case I would push for FR.

position is very important

Build pots.
Learn to pick games/seats and when to find another one.
Keep gambling with the table sucker.
Don't expect most players to stack off as easily as the early action in SnGs.

in the first level of sng play, the only hands that i am happy to play are AA, KK, QQ and AK. All other hands I'm happy folding preflop. Hands like JJ, TT and AQ I'll play, but if there's a lot of strength shown i'll just fold probably. i might play worse hands but only if it is folded to me and i'm in late position.
doubling up early in an sng doesn't mean much to me. i'd rather just fold the first 30-40 hands until it is 6 handed and then start building my stack by stealing blinds.

this isn't how you're supposed to play FR is it? this would mean folding 3 or 4 orbits at a time and then making pennies when i do get AA.

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

In the U.S. there was this bill... Bill Frist? Port Security?

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

In the U.S. there was this bill... Bill Frist? Port Security?

maybe someday i'll be a real boy

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

In the U.S. there was this bill... Bill Frist? Port Security?

what are you talking about?
are you and martin making sarcastic jokes?

i was asking a serious question. if the play at party is much easier than the play at stars, then why do some of you guys play at stars rather than party?

is it to improve your game?
or is it because the standard of play at stars is just as easy as party?
or is it because you like the interface at stars more?
or is it because the rake is lower there?
or is it a few of these things?

i'm asking a serious question here!

US players aren't allowed to play there anymore.

ok thanks