Smooth call Flop, Turn, SLAM River...

OK, I've been playing mostly in Poker Room $25NL lately to clear a new bonus. I have not been doing real well (4.5PTBB/100) but most of that has been due to negative variance. I have lost my stack 3x on some frickin' donk calling my 2/3 pot bets all the way to the river and then hitting a #&$%^#&$^# gutshot str8 (what they were calling me down with wasn't even in the range of hands I put them on so I lost my stack). Unbelievable. Yeah, you want donks to do that, but c'mon the Poker Gods hate me on that site. I have digressed. What I wanted to post about is a move I get quite often on Poker Room that I saw rarely on other sites (Poker Stars, Party, Paradise). Here is the scenario. Typically I have AK or AQ and I hit TPTK on the flop. In each case (now that I think about it) I am OOP with 1-2 other callers. I fire out a 2/3 pot sized bet all the way to the river and get smooth called by the button or CO. And then my 2/3 pot bet gets raised HUGE on the river every frickin time (at least 3x). I know the general rule is "you are beat" and I have folded all of them except the most recent one because I got sick of this abuse and didn't care. Turns out the guy had nothing and I took down a huge pot. So, I was wondering if you guys have seen this move a lot and whether is it worth calling these bets down or did I just so happen to catch the one guy who was bluffing...thoughts?

Originally Posted by djzcko

OK, I've been playing mostly in Poker Room $25NL lately to clear a new bonus. I have not been doing real well (4.5PTBB/100) but most of that has been due to negative variance. I have lost my stack 3x on some frickin' donk calling my 2/3 pot bets all the way to the river and then hitting a #&$%^#&$^# gutshot str8 (what they were calling me down with wasn't even in the range of hands I put them on so I lost my stack). Unbelievable. Yeah, you want donks to do that, but c'mon the Poker Gods hate me on that site. I have digressed. What I wanted to post about is a move I get quite often on Poker Room that I saw rarely on other sites (Poker Stars, Party, Paradise). Here is the scenario. Typically I have AK or AQ and I hit TPTK on the flop. In each case (now that I think about it) I am OOP with 1-2 other callers. I fire out a 2/3 pot sized bet all the way to the river and get smooth called by the button or CO. And then my 2/3 pot bet gets raised HUGE on the river every frickin time (at least 3x). I know the general rule is "you are beat" and I have folded all of them except the most recent one because I got sick of this abuse and didn't care. Turns out the guy had nothing and I took down a huge pot. So, I was wondering if you guys have seen this move a lot and whether is it worth calling these bets down or did I just so happen to catch the one guy who was bluffing...thoughts?

It totally depends. Post some hands, this is way to generic to give thoughts.

pokerroom is full of donks
Raise more preflop and then bet hard.
They suck awfully.
Sounds like my expereince so do as piratepeaty suggests.

What probably happened is that some players saw the previous hands where you folded to a large river bet and thought "That looks like fun, I'll give it a go." This is why you need to be aware of you table image and how you are playing.

FWIW I think the first few times were genuine hands, then they started taking the piss.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

pokerroom is full of donks
Raise more preflop and then bet hard.
They suck awfully.
Sounds like my expereince so do as piratepeaty suggests.

$25NL is full of donks in general. I do agree with you that Poker Room has more than it's fair share of donks but the difference is that they are more agressive donks than at other sites. This throws me off a little so i guess I need to adjust to it and make better reads. Maybe pot sized bets instead of 1/2 to 2/3?

Finky: Good point. Since I 4 table, it is difficult for me to get good reads...so maybe these players are taking advantage of me knowing that I don't have good reads?

Lastly, sorry don't have any HH's because I am not at my poker computer. The main thing I wanted to understand is if this "Poker Room move" is a standard bluff or not for those of you that have played there.

If you smell they try to slap you with air, try to vary your play.

bet flop, check-raise turn, drop the hammer on river
bet flop, check-call turn, bet the river (fairly strong)
check-raise flop, check-raise all-In turn
bet flop, bet turn, check/call river

Donks will get confused and will think twice before betting when you check and raising when you bet.

Set the rules in your jungle, put those monkeys in the line. Don't be afraid to drop the hammer with your overpairs.

I'd say that most of the time river raises like that will have you beat. BUT... if there story doesn't make sense and you have odds, call.

Originally Posted by djzcko

Here is the scenario. Typically I have AK or AQ and I hit TPTK on the flop. In each case (now that I think about it) I am OOP with 1-2 other callers. I fire out a 2/3 pot sized bet all the way to the river and get smooth called by the button or CO. And then my 2/3 pot bet gets raised HUGE on the river every frickin time (at least 3x).

I've found myself in this position many times. This past week I've been grinding away at proom and building my stack on small pots only to watch it disappear when I flop a strong hand (trips or better). I've shown a few hands on here and have been working harder on making sure I'm making good plays so I have a better understanding of whether it is me, them, or variance. If I'm playing bad it's not the variance and the past few days I've actually been playing quite well but still managed to lose over 2 1/2 buy-ins the other day.

I've been dropping by-ins to runner-runner and two on the flop that complete on the river flushes. My usuall scenario has been a 6xBB raise preflop, hit a set and get in a pot-sized or more re-raise. Overbet the turn. When the third suite hits the river if I bet my opponent goes all in. If I check my opponent goes all in. I've been running into a number of Axs and a few any two will do.

This line is befuddling me because I am seeing a number of people use it so it's been hard for me to get a read. I'm 1 for 4 on those the last couple of days. My only saving grace is that as I work on improving my ring game, the $5 SNG's are pretty soft and I can replenish my bankroll through those.

Originally Posted by strawman

Originally Posted by djzcko

Here is the scenario. Typically I have AK or AQ and I hit TPTK on the flop. In each case (now that I think about it) I am OOP with 1-2 other callers. I fire out a 2/3 pot sized bet all the way to the river and get smooth called by the button or CO. And then my 2/3 pot bet gets raised HUGE on the river every frickin time (at least 3x).

I've found myself in this position many times. This past week I've been grinding away at proom and building my stack on small pots only to watch it disappear when I flop a strong hand (trips or better). I've shown a few hands on here and have been working harder on making sure I'm making good plays so I have a better understanding of whether it is me, them, or variance. If I'm playing bad it's not the variance and the past few days I've actually been playing quite well but still managed to lose over 2 1/2 buy-ins the other day.

I've been dropping by-ins to runner-runner and two on the flop that complete on the river flushes. My usuall scenario has been a 6xBB raise preflop, hit a set and get in a pot-sized or more re-raise. Overbet the turn. When the third suite hits the river if I bet my opponent goes all in. If I check my opponent goes all in. I've been running into a number of Axs and a few any two will do.

This line is befuddling me because I am seeing a number of people use it so it's been hard for me to get a read. I'm 1 for 4 on those the last couple of days. My only saving grace is that as I work on improving my ring game, the $5 SNG's are pretty soft and I can replenish my bankroll through those.

PRoom $25NL is frustrating me because I see all the donks lose their $ to AA and KK thinking their top pair is best and whenever I get AA, KK or QQ I either lose a big hand or win a small pot. I can accept it if they get a set on me, but to get 6x-8xBB pf raise called consistently by K4, A4 or K9 and get beat by a str8 or flopped 2pr is just plain unbeleivable. Either that or I get TPTK (which is good 90% of the time on PR) and they either suck out a gutshot or use the "Poker Room" move on me and get me to fold. As a result, I am only up 4.5BB/100 on PR when my normal winrate is 11BB/100. I can't wait to clear my bonus and get the hell out...that site hates me.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts. Sounds like the "Poker Room" move is generally not a bluff from your experience. What is your screen name there?