11-24-2010 02:55 PM
#1
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11-25-2010 04:26 AM
#2
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you could also add in why min raising in general is a bad idea. |
11-25-2010 05:54 PM
#3
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this is so fucking sexy it hurts. You realise that you're bluffing? probably not |
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11-23-2010 01:33 PM
#4
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Last edited by OngBonga; 11-23-2010 at 01:40 PM. | |
11-23-2010 12:46 PM
#5
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11-23-2010 01:26 PM
#6
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I think you're significantly behind his range when he donkbets that flop, and stoving seems to confirm that suspicion, even if I'm generous about counting all the conceivable draw/middle pair type hands he might have. So the problem as I see it, is that in order to defend your rather marginal holding (given the board texture) you have to raise bigger on the flop which also means betting bigger on the turn. IMO, you're stuck committing way too much money in a spot where you're often behind. |
11-23-2010 01:38 PM
#7
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Oh yeah, this latest hand you posted, it's interesting. I would fold to the raise at the flop, it's just too dangerous. It seems you've hit lucky and successfully got value against an aggressive flush draw, but I'm not sure we get enough of these to pay for the times he calls down Ax. I think checking behind on the river is correct, simply because he calls an ace, and folds his flush draws. There's no value, there's no worse hand that can call this bet, and I don't think any better hands fold. In other words, the river bet is -ev. | |
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11-24-2010 07:09 AM
#8
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i know about the last hand (me 10 pair) i was risking a lot, that why i asked you. i did play that way because my image was really tight at the table and for good reasons, they only seen my cards when they got beaten and even when i lost i had damn good hands. for him, i tried him on that flop raise, him calling me on the turn made me think he has a pair below AA or he has AK, AJ since he was the preflop raiser. his flop seemed a cbet not a made hand,if he betted the pot i would have folded in a sec,he seen me playing AQ many times and all the times i had the betting line as here, maybe he was chasing the straight or waiting for a K, dont know.... i read him good here i think, but that doenst my play ok,i know, that is why i posted the hand. i dont have to play like this hands i know, it was a try based on my reads on him and my image at the table. dont play like this is a better and more profitable play, i know | |
11-24-2010 07:25 AM
#9
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Oops, I read the hand wrong; I thought you were the preflop raiser. Still, he could just as easily be betting with a made hand rather than cbetting, though the fact that he was the preflop aggressor does open his range up a bit from what I had considered, I think. |
11-24-2010 07:34 AM
#10
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with made hands he pots the flop and goes 3bet and even all in is he has no doubt.... forgot to say that . anyway wasnt the best play on that board, i was lucky i know. | |
11-24-2010 10:54 AM
#11
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didnt believe it raise.... thought he was stealing.... | |
Last edited by Razvan729; 11-24-2010 at 10:57 AM. | |
11-24-2010 11:24 AM
#12
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Haha ouch. The flop call is terrible, obviously. What you're doing here at the flop is floating, and at 2nl it's just a waste of time. Floating is calling a bet with nothing with the intention of bluffing a later street, but at 2nl, people are much less likely to fold top pair to a raise at a later street, therefore floating is not profitable when you're playing against bad players. | |
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11-24-2010 11:32 AM
#13
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i know... really dont know what i was thinkink of.... anyway it was stupid of me and i got punished by poker god | |
11-24-2010 11:39 AM
#14
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I'd probably 3bet preflop (except against a player with very low ATS) and c/f flop. |
11-25-2010 04:47 AM
#15
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I think thats terrible in this situation. At 2nl they will call , if you 3bet you are building a big pot , you will be out of position and your post flop hand strength will be terrible.IF he had the KcQc yeah fine you probably have the best hand pre. folding pre is by far the best here in the absence of stats/reads on the villain. |
11-25-2010 07:26 AM
#16
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11-24-2010 12:05 PM
#17
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doing 3bet in 2nl means going all in.... they rarely fold a 3bet no matter what they have | |
11-24-2010 12:12 PM
#18
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11-24-2010 12:18 PM
#19
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11-24-2010 12:49 PM
#20
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these are my sessions since i joined your site plus the one from today witch is +7$ in my account.... you dont wanna see the prrevious ones, were + and - but mostly -. | |
11-25-2010 06:46 AM
#21
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oskar...i raised flop to see if he really has the A. that all, if he reraised me then i fold, he didnt , he checked turn, and then i thought he has AK, KK, JJ and he is afraid i hit the AQ. guessed he keeps calling waiting a K. told my play was wrong i know i should have folded flop. i chose those bets because he seen playing AQ lots of times and i thought the line bet would make him think i really have AQ/// i repeat, i know its wrong. | |
11-25-2010 07:21 AM
#22
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here are my 2nl lifetime stats from the net. please see them and tell me what do you think about my play after these stats. please be as criticising as you can be. i really dont know if its good, bad or i should stop playing. | |
11-25-2010 07:51 AM
#23
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[QUOTE=Razvan729;1991706] |
11-25-2010 08:45 AM
#24
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he has been for an hour at the table, hasnt played a hand it is his first. | |
11-25-2010 10:00 AM
#25
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11-25-2010 10:04 AM
#26
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This AK hand, it's a tough spot. Villain tendancies play a huge role in spots like this. We need to know he can play flush draws or KQ like this. If we haven't seen him raise lighter than TPTK at the flop, it's probably a fold. I'd say the best we can hope for is a Jx spades hand, but it's more likely 2pr at least. You can go ahead and fold this, it's ok. | |
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11-25-2010 10:15 AM
#27
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11-25-2010 04:12 PM
#28
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11-25-2010 03:41 PM
#29
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w/ 54s keep in mind that you're actually behind his stealing range along with being OOP so you'll probably need fold equity somewhere in the hand to make it profitable to defend, which is usually preflop or on the flop. You're so far behind on the flop c/c isn't even funny. If you were planning on c/c flop and leading turns or c/r'ing them (if he's barreling it with high frequencies) then this is really a card you should be doing it on. c/c on turn is meh given how small of a bet it was. But like every reason that i've tried to give to justify defending here is villain dependant and none of them probably apply here. you should also be planning future streets when doing things like this which i don't think you were ;( |
11-26-2010 04:23 AM
#30
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2nl dumb lucky jackass! today and yesterday i had only hands like this 1! | |
11-26-2010 04:43 AM
#31
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You should be happy. It's great to play with people who call your preflop raises with 84, and then call pot sized bets all the way | |
Last edited by daviddem; 11-26-2010 at 04:49 AM.
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11-26-2010 03:31 PM
#32
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11-27-2010 01:07 AM
#33
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11-27-2010 01:29 AM
#34
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11-27-2010 01:32 AM
#35
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11-27-2010 01:40 AM
#36
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11-27-2010 01:43 AM
#37
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he had the flush man and i just knew that... why play when you know that? | |
11-27-2010 01:49 AM
#38
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Are you admitting to being a superuser? |
11-27-2010 01:53 AM
#39
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11-27-2010 01:57 AM
#40
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11-27-2010 02:04 AM
#41
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like i seen him play, he could be on 22+ and 78s+.... he called raised pots with that | |
11-27-2010 02:10 AM
#42
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okay, now please give us a calling range to a bet on the river |
11-27-2010 02:13 AM
#43
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Ax, 22+ | |
11-27-2010 02:15 AM
#44
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you do realize that you're saying he's folding flushes, right? |
11-27-2010 02:17 AM
#45
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yes i am... you're right... but he showed 8h4h at the SD so putting donks on ranges doenst always work... with donk safe is best. | |
11-27-2010 02:20 AM
#46
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Soul owned. | |
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11-27-2010 02:21 AM
#47
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11-27-2010 02:23 AM
#48
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11-27-2010 02:24 AM
#49
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if you felt he had flushes in his range then why didn't you put them in his calling range?? |
11-27-2010 02:28 AM
#50
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11-27-2010 02:31 AM
#51
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11-27-2010 02:37 AM
#52
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Last edited by Razvan729; 11-27-2010 at 02:40 AM. | |
11-27-2010 02:46 AM
#53
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...st-147397.html |
11-27-2010 02:50 AM
#54
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Dude, it doesn't matter. You tried to put him on a range. That is a good first step. You were then squarely shown it was wrong because you did not include flush draws in it. Now the next step is to go back to work and come back in your next post with a range that includes flushes. Then we'll figure out together how you make money from that range. | |
Last edited by daviddem; 11-27-2010 at 02:56 AM.
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11-27-2010 02:57 AM
#55
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11-27-2010 03:00 AM
#56
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ranges in theory shouldn't get bigger as you get to later streets |
11-27-2010 03:04 AM
#57
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i know, but real poker sometimes they do. | |
11-27-2010 03:12 AM
#58
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No ranges never get wider. He cannot hold two cards on the river that he was not possibly holding on the flop, can he? | |
Last edited by daviddem; 11-27-2010 at 03:20 AM.
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11-27-2010 03:18 AM
#59
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i was saying it wrong, often hard to put in english what i think.... you are right.... they dont get wider | |
11-27-2010 03:27 AM
#60
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11-27-2010 08:59 AM
#61
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Stacks - Bob 2012, Terry 2567, Billy 6720, Hero 4555, Englebert 1020, Jesus 967 | |
Last edited by OngBonga; 11-27-2010 at 09:07 AM. | |
11-27-2010 09:15 AM
#62
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11-27-2010 09:28 AM
#63
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11-27-2010 09:34 AM
#64
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11-27-2010 09:36 AM
#65
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did range help you in any at 2 nl? | |
11-27-2010 09:40 AM
#66
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Last edited by OngBonga; 11-27-2010 at 09:43 AM. | |
11-27-2010 09:42 AM
#67
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11-27-2010 09:44 AM
#68
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11-27-2010 09:45 AM
#69
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that is easy... donks have this range: 22+ and 23o + | |
11-27-2010 09:52 AM
#70
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Some of them do have this range. That's great, that's why we have a bankroll, that's why we don't play beyond our means, so that we can take the hits against these high-variance players when they get lucky. Bottom line is, they're not winning players. Focus on your own leaks, don't worry about other people's. | |
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11-27-2010 10:02 AM
#71
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i know you are right... when i am damn frustrated like this, i make no sense when talking.... this is the right way to play, like you all say , i just to learn and keep a lot cooler | |
11-27-2010 11:49 AM
#72
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he was always trying to steal blinds... first time i call him in SB or BB... never saw a hand from him, never got SD, but he played agg no matter board structure, always when reraised on any street he folded... | |
Last edited by Razvan729; 11-27-2010 at 11:52 AM. | |
11-28-2010 08:03 AM
#73
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should i use the fold equity on 2nl? i am using pokerstove on big pots, and anytime i get over 60% i bet the pot or go all in.... but, people here just dont fold, even though i put them on the right ranges.... just i should just do it as a exercise for me in the future and just keep playing only my cards in 2nl without trying bluffs based on equity? | |
11-28-2010 09:44 AM
#74
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- your hand above, 3b preflop | |
Last edited by daviddem; 11-28-2010 at 12:36 PM.
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11-28-2010 09:58 AM
#75
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never thought 3bet pf with that in that position | |