Slowing down the aggression - SNG/MTT

2 plays I have currently started, in order to reduce getting burnt, and I'd like comments please.

1) hit the flop hard, say trips or 2 pair on a flush draw board. I bet out and get re raised (probably by TPTK or the nut flush). I used to reraise, all in, get called and give the draw a good chance to outdraw me. Which they often do.

So now I tend to just flat call. That was if the flush is complete, I canget away and if it misses, they are less inclined to call my bet and leave themselves on thin ice if they do.


2) If I am being check called or opponent is leading out and by the river, there is the possibility of a straight or better, I check instead of betting out with my 2 pair or set. They have shown a propensity for chasing their straight against the odds and so no point in betting. Better than being reraised all in.

On one hand I think that even all in with top pair against a dominated hand - say KJ vs K7 on K94 board - still gives villain a 25% margin (which seems too much - hence seeing the turn) but the flip side is that should a 7 fall on the turn, it isn't exactly a scare card and so I can walk into trouble - so then I think I should apply the pressure and reraise.

In both situations though, I am not (mathematically) exploiting my advantage and am often check calling with the best hand. I guess I am practising damage limitation but wonder if this can be correct, rather than being one dimensionally aggressive by pushing all in and getting owned by a better hand I misread or getting outdrawn by a 2/1 dog.


Thx.

I've been suffering a lot of beats in this realm... this might work out. I'm not sure. I continue to get my money in when it is good but keep getting drawn out on... so this might be a viable plan, even if it isn't mathmatically correct.

1) With trips or two pair on the flop i like to get as much money in as possible here if a flush possible. smooth call and see if the turn is safe before getting the money seems an ok line to me. most players wont raise on a flush draw though - he is probably trying to make you pay to hit it.

2) agree with that, id check the river and find out what they have been calling me down with - you will know then if its safe to bet the river next time.

Originally Posted by Thunder

1) hit the flop hard, say trips or 2 pair on a flush draw board. I bet out and get re raised (probably by TPTK or the nut flush). I used to reraise, get called and give the draw a good chance to outdraw me. Which they often do.

So now I tend to just flat call. That was if the flush is complete, I canget away and if it misses, they are less inclined to call my bet and leave themselves on thin ice if they do.

If they have a draw, then why are wanting them to fold to you bet? You say "if it misses, they are less inclined to call my bet and leave themselves on thin ice if they do". I assume you mean on the flop that if you call they will probably fold to a turn bet if the draw misses. Well you don't really want that. You want to get money out of them when you can. Remember when you bet you want better hands to fold and worse hands to call. A draw is (generally) a worse hand than a made hand. So make them pay, just make sure they don't get the correct odds to do so. Betting to fold out hands that can draw out on you, but are currently behind, isn't gonna work.

Originally Posted by Thunder

If I am being check called or opponent is leading out and by the river, there is the possibility of a straight or better, I check instead of betting out with my 2 pair or set. They have shown a propensity for chasing their straight against the odds and so no point in betting. Better than being reraised all in.

If you are in position and you think the opponent is capable of c/ring the river and the draw has hit, then it's probably best to just go ahead and check behind on the river with you semi-marginal hands so you don't get c/r'ed off it (unless you would call a shove). If you are oop and the opponent is really aggressive I would say c/cing the river is better than leading out, simply because if you lead he would be raising you as well so sometimes you would fold the best hand. If he is passive I would be more inclined to bet/fold as he will call with a wide range of hands (middle pair, weak top pair etc.. like all the calling stations), however he probably isn't going to be raising a whole lot of those hands. So by bet/folding you get value from the times you are ahead, whereas if you just c/c'ed he probably won't bet the weak holdings he would have called with. But you can still get away for about the same price if he was to raise your lead, because he doesn't normally bet, so he probably has a good hand.

Oh well, that's just my thinking. I'm a microstakes newb, so maybe it will get raped by the better players. That's fine. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Thunder

1) hit the flop hard, say trips or 2 pair on a flush draw board. I bet out and get re raised (probably by TPTK or the nut flush). I used to reraise, all in, get called and give the draw a good chance to outdraw me. Which they often do.

So now I tend to just flat call. That was if the flush is complete, I canget away and if it misses, they are less inclined to call my bet and leave themselves on thin ice if they do.


2) If I am being check called or opponent is leading out and by the river, there is the possibility of a straight or better, I check instead of betting out with my 2 pair or set. They have shown a propensity for chasing their straight against the odds and so no point in betting. Better than being reraised all in.

.

if i understand number 2 right, it seems fine. You probably will only be called by hands that beat you due to the straight draw completing and if i read it right, you have position so it is ok to check the river. 1 is horrible though. Gotta follow the fundamental theorem of poker. You dont want people to be "less inclined to call your bet" when you have something like a set or 2 pair, you want as much action as you possibly can because your hand is a monster and have outs against draws. Also, if you go all in and they call, implied odds are gone and this is a strictly pot odds problem. If theyre willing to get the money in as a 3:1 underdog why are you trying to prevent them from doing so? It seems to me that this theory is results oriented, especially since if they dont have a flush draw or a straight draw then you are a huge favorite over something like top pair.

Part results orientated as you can't reload 3/4 of the way through an MTT as you can with cash.

Part trying to be a bit cleverer than just shoving and so choosing to push on the turn rather than the flop. Thus reducing your beats and maximising your wins.

If it's wrong then cool, but that's the way I am currently thinking. I know for a fact that if I am on the draw then getting 2 cards together is a far more attractive proposition than with just 1 card to go.

ya, i kinda ignored the title of the thread lmao