September Graphs....

Nothing to be proud of but I had a horrible august and there was def some tilt left over in the first half of september. I know I can turn it around if I eliminate tilt and have some consistency with my level of play. When I'm actually thinking things through I do alright. Too often I make bad bluffs, calls when I know I should just let it go.

5NL

Is that a typical amount of hands for you per month? It got me wondering how many hands a typical reg plays. Not even sure what i mean by typical, i guess someone who cares enough to read and post here.

What stakes are you playing?

edit: yeah, you can see the tilt in the first 1300 hands or so

This actually reminded me of something i was thinking of last night. I don't think there are any threads where we can post graphs and stats, and maybe have them analyzed/critiqued for leaks. It sounds to me like a great idea, but maybe its been tried before and it sucked or something. Just a thought and I'd be willing to help.

edit: I just realized you guys probably do this every month. Disregard anything dumb said by the new guy.

started off ok, then started spewing. went on vacation, studied, played some marginally +ev poker, then went tag mass tabling for $$

yeah, not a huge volume, but whatevs, im still happy with the results

(totally not results oriented)

FInally starting to recover from 120k -1500 swing as can be seen from showdown winnings actually moving upwards for the first time in 10 weeks...

Crap volume also, need 35k VPPs to get SN by year end and not waste the |250k fpps ill have by then for another year....



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My first full month of online poker Thanks everyone, it was a fun first month and i hope to get better.

Originally Posted by Zorkion

started off ok, then started spewing. went on vacation, studied, played some marginally +ev poker, then went tag mass tabling for $$

yeah, not a huge volume, but whatevs, im still happy with the results

(totally not results oriented)

I don't ever recall seeing a redline above zero before, isn't that really bizzare???

Originally Posted by Socristotle

My first full month of online poker Thanks everyone, it was a fun first month and i hope to get better.

Nice work man! you'll be at 25NL in not time if you keep going like that.
Did you start at 2NL?

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

Nice work man! you'll be at 25NL in not time if you keep going like that.
Did you start at 2NL?

Thanks and yeah i started at 2NL, 4NL and currently at 10NL. Not exactly crushing them, but it could be worse i guess.



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all 2nl i think glad to have that out of the way

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

I don't ever recall seeing a redline above zero before, isn't that really bizzare???

yeah, i guess so.

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

I don't ever recall seeing a redline above zero before, isn't that really bizzare???

when you bet every single pot, yes, the redline is above 0, but if you watch the green and blue line... well... just see the pic

Originally Posted by kickass

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all 2nl i think glad to have that out of the way

Wow kickass, you really... kicked ass! Isn't that like 30 bb/100?

dumb month. Maybe +$1k at the tables? don't even feel like checking. Bring on October.

First real month back on the grind since BF. 2 sites 4NL mostly.


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+144 @ the tables +30 RB = +174$
Man I miss stars....

WTF redline. This looks like an error. So I rarely lost w/o SD and mostly lost at SD? Actually sounds about right. Got rivered many many times.
Up almost an entire BI.
Lost with sets and straights many times on river.
Had gall bladder taken out yesterday. In pain but have some good meds so not going to play for a few days.

http://i52.tinypic.com/30ucsab.jpg - 20 NL on Cake.

Wierd month. Ran like ass then proceded to have a bit of a heater. Graph looks like its gone nuts as a result. My play was decent, though I could've done much more volume and spazzed less in a couple sessions.

You people with + redline at micros have to be doing it wrong lol

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

You people with + redline at micros have to be doing it wrong lol

I was wondering about this 'cause my graphs when I used to play micros online had either a redline that looked like \ or _.

Your red line will tend to be inversely proportional to your blue line (to a degree). If your red line falls, It means you're playing tight abc poker and not bluffing or playing fancy too much. Just sitting in the blinds all day would make the red line fall so it's natural (as long as your blue line goes up, your green line will naturally follow).

They reflect the stats WTSD and W$SD. If your red line is falling at too much of an angle, you're giving up too many pots, especially if your blue line is shooting up. Maybe you need to turn up the aggression a bit and quit giving up on later streets, or see more showdowns (maybe like my graph). If your red line is going down very slightly AND your blue line is going up, you're kicking ass (like kickass graph) If your red line goes up at any point, your blue line will naturally come down. It means you're playing too many hands and when people finally do look you up, you lose a few pots, maybe some big ones, then go on tilt and lose some more, etc... when you see lines converging, it generally means tilt. If you see it a lot, that player might have a problem with tilt.

Just imagine some donk sits down to your right and proceeds to shove 10 hands in a row pre-flop. His red line will start to go up. Now you're squirming in your seat in excitement at this blessing from the poker gods and just waiting for a decent hand to call. When you do, and he finally sees a showdown, his red and blue lines will converge drastically. This is an extreme example but you get the idea. You can tell a lot about a player by their graphs.

Wouldn't it be fairly flat or very gradual decline for a 5/4 super nit type? Since they'l win alot w/o showdown and have alot of showdowns

Yeah, I play loose on the button but very tight from other positons (unless as CO the button is tight and not 3b happy...unlikely.) I hardly ever bluff, besides good cbet boards so theres a reasonable amount of people giving up on turns and sometimes rivers. It might be why my red line is breakevenish.

Behold! The Anti-Renton!

O dear. After a promising August playing 2NL, I was 'rolled for 5NL, and this is my first foray.

Not sure what went wrong; i'm playing my usual game. Maybe i've hit that LK=DT cusp.

I need the Carrot Man.

PS - Vol. is poor coz i bin on vacation for the last 2 weeks.

back to mostly playing mtt's/sngs

but since your talking about redline... Lol

this is 25nl 6Max Aug/Sep



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Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

Wouldn't it be fairly flat or very gradual decline for a 5/4 super nit type? Since they'l win alot w/o showdown and have alot of showdowns

Yeah, i think that's probably gonna be the case in most graphs, considering they have a good image and keep it up, which isn't hard to do once you win a few showdowns, which in turn will make the red line less of a decline ( Who wants to play against his utg open now?). Until a fish sits down, but that's a different story...

Originally Posted by fulksy

back to mostly playing mtt's/sngs

but since your talking about redline... Lol

this is Aug/Sep

Yeah Tournaments are gonna be a lot different because you usually don't see very many showdowns until blinds increase and people start getting short stacked etc... In your case, i'd say you did pretty damn good.

edit: If this graph is from cash hands, please tell me your secret lol.

Originally Posted by Socristotle

Yeah Tournaments are gonna be a lot different because you usually don't see very many showdowns until blinds increase and people start getting short stacked etc... In your case, i'd say you did pretty damn good.

the graph wasn't tournaments just mentioned that cause of low volume, it was 6max 25nl.

Originally Posted by fulksy

the graph wasn't tournaments just mentioned that cause of low volume, it was 6max 25nl.

Since your lines never converge, I'd say you play a LAGG style and you did a great job of keeping your image strong, am i right? It is a relatively small sample, but awesome looking.

I never claimed to be the expert, I'm only offering my knowledge (which is in general, there are certainly going to be exceptions) in hopes of better understanding my own game. Please feel free to let me know my information is full of shit. But i think your graph is gonna be rare.

edit: also my information is based on micros, I have yet to even fathom the mind of a 100NL+ player.

fullsky you baller you, tell us how your redline becomes the why it is, because I'm pretty sure you play way off from standard TAG.

Originally Posted by fulksy

back to mostly playing mtt's/sngs

Why? You seem to be immune from the variance the rest of us 6-max players see (again, a small sample, but wow). Why would you play variance filled mtt's after that performance? Just wondering, I wish I could play on a bigger player based site, I would probably specialize in mtt's (but i suck at cash games).

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

Behold! The Anti-Renton!

O dear. After a promising August playing 2NL, I was 'rolled for 5NL, and this is my first foray.

Not sure what went wrong; i'm playing my usual game. Maybe i've hit that LK=DT cusp.

I need the Carrot Man.
.

I dropped 14 buy ins straight at 5NL when I first moved up lol I refused to move back down tho and won consistently til I was +14 buys (28 BI's difference). It's an adjustment.

play fewer tables than you were at 2NL
Play tight
don't bluff
play in position.

until you get used to the new stakes.

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

Play tight
don't bluff
play in position.

Thank you for this, I actually wrote it down on a post it on my monitor. I know there are countless articles with this same advice for micros and we all should know it, but you sir have summed it up beautifully. Simple is good.

Originally Posted by Socristotle

Why? You seem to be immune from the variance the rest of us 6-max players see (again, a small sample, but wow). Why would you play variance filled mtt's after that performance? Just wondering, I wish I could play on a bigger player based site, I would probably specialize in mtt's (but i suck at cash games).

i just enjoy a Mtt's which is probably why i bluff so much lol, i need to be able to shove and reshove atc sometimes, plus i built my BR in sngs and mtt's, i'm pretty sure i'm quite +EV in Mtt's so the allure of a nice big score keeps me playing them

i guess ill post here since shnl is dead

computer crashed 1 week into the month and i lost everything inc the first week of hands played so no idea what i was up or down then



cant remember how much rakeback.

prolly lots

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

play fewer tables than you were at 2NL
Play tight
don't bluff
play in position.

until you get used to the new stakes.

Thanks man - you are my Han Solo

Originally Posted by Penneywize

prolly lots

yeah, got to cash my 600k vpp bonus

m2m, were you pissed when you dropped $11k that day?

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

m2m, were you pissed when you dropped $11k that day?

i was a bit tilted since i only had like 25k online lol

I should post some garfs from last year where my redline was ////////// along with the greenline.

I'm a micro baws tho, y'all just a bunch of nit bitches.

Jk

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

i was a bit tilted since i only had like 25k online lol

Yeah dude be careful remember variance is killer no matter how good you are.

Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

Play tight
don't bluff
play in position.

tight-check
position is cool too
as for bluffing, if we assume that we cbet 80% of our opening range, and we only hit the flop maybe 35% of the time, doesnt that mean were bluffing 45% of the time?

what about barreling? what about betting strong draws that missed on the river, after weak passive opp has flat called our 2 bullets on previous streets? what about minbetting 27o from BU when the blinds are both 6/4 nits?

disclaimer - i suck at poker and bluff too much, but i still cant bring myself to believe the 'dont bluff' part. maybe if people beat enough sense into me i can change my ways and become a better player

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

i guess ill post here since shnl is dead

question- is there anything you noticed about your game and decided to change around hand #30k? i get variance and all, and if thats the case, then just say the word, but it looks like perhaps you made a very profitable difference in your game. if theres any valueable insight there, please share, i wanna become balla too

I'm pretty sure I know what he did :3

Originally Posted by Zorkion

i still cant bring myself to believe the 'dont bluff' part...

Hi Zork

don't take it out of context - the "until you get used to the new stakes" bit

no way is nonofyobiz suggesting that this is a long-term strategy

Originally Posted by Zorkion

question- is there anything you noticed about your game and decided to change around hand #30k? i get variance and all, and if thats the case, then just say the word, but it looks like perhaps you made a very profitable difference in your game. if theres any valueable insight there, please share, i wanna become balla too

You're probably looking into graph slope way too much, attributing it to a change of play instead of just variance. m2m's been posting massive winning months for a while now, I seriously doubt he overhauled his game or had some massive epiphany exactly at hand 30k.

Everyone will have 30k hand graphs like __ and 30k hand graphs like / and neither necessarily means they were playing better or worse. Getting great at poker isn't about figuring out anything magical, it's about incremental learning and tilt management. m2m's been persistent at working on his game, seems to have great tilt management and it has paid off. If you want to ball, that's the valuable insight here.

Originally Posted by d0zer

You're probably looking into graph slope way too much

quoted for the most motherfuckin' truth that can be expressed as regards poker (QFTMMTTCBEARP) {acronym life itself hates}

what i think is cool is that m2m was stuck ~$6 or 7k at the 30k hand mark (of the hands that were tracked) of this month. that guy makes hundreds of thousands of dollars per year playing poker.

i struggle to put in 30k hands in a "good" month.

imagine what m2m's monthly "winrate" was at 30k hands.

variance, i think, is so much bigger a factor in this game than most micro players (myself included) are able to appreciate.

yeah most micro players just haven't put in the volume required to fully appreciate variance, and they're also playing at much more lower variance games full of passive predictable players where a decent player will naturally experience less variance.

at the micros a 10k or 20k BE stretch may seem long, especially if you've only played 100k hands lifetime but anyone who's played 1million hands+ can show you tons of those periods.

i struggle to get in 10 K hands/month lol

Zorkian > I'm sayin, for the first 5 K hands or whatever when u first move up a stake it's ok to play super ABC, especially if u start dropping buy ins. Of course you're gonna cbet but I'm talking about the times u convince yourself that villain doesn't have the hand he's reppin or that you can make him fold.... err on the side of caution instead of putting in the bluff. I think all us beginners do that.

What does the perfect graph look like? And why?

(and don't post one of M2M's)

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

What does the perfect graph look like? And why?

(and don't post one of M2M's)

one that goes up up up over a large sample and has a lot of zeros on the y-axis scale because it means that a lot of money has been won.

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

What does the perfect graph look like? And why?

(and don't post one of M2M's)

This question is absurd.

Ok, I'm talking about including AIEV, SD winnings, non SD winnings and something reasonable.

Obviously all lines equal being the best but I mean reasonable.

that totally depends how you table select and on your play style

The only line that matters is when poker is legalized! It isn't even a line. I don't care. Give me my Stars.

stars is sooo nitty.
I ventured onto 888poker last nite and all the 10NL tables were 20-30% players/flop. u can find that on stars but after 10 minutes it goes down to 5% lol

^Whatever guy from somewhere who has lotsa choices on where to play poker. I fucking miss stars, and I really fucking hate CPN, really it's a love hate thing, but mostly hate.

As far as graphs go, I remember Carrotz posting a gragh where he'd played a bunch of nano steaks hands for whatever reason and the green line went up at like a 45* angle. Pretty sure that was the most perfect graph I ever seen. Green line goes up is what matters. Ev, redline, blueline are all bullshit. Maybe that's being to "results oriented" but that's the reason were here yeah? Make some money.

Dammit,. Woke up drunk triple post. I'm of the opinion that the lower stakes you're playing the more abc poker you should be playing. The micros isn't about getting fancy and trying to outplay people, that'll only get you a fuckton of variance and a lower winrate and make take longer to move up where you can learn to play some real poker. Tight abc poker is the way to beat the micros, it's been proven over and over again.

Originally Posted by supa

^Whatever guy from somewhere who has lotsa choices on where to play poker. I fucking miss stars, and I really fucking hate CPN, really it's a love hate thing, but mostly hate.

ya lol i haven't put in an hour of play on 888 and I'm already sick of the software. stars software just fcking owns.