SC in multiway 3bet pot

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

Ok, considering the pot size, how about 1/2 psb then? SPR is still terrible for a drawing hand so the best you can hope for is to flop the nuts, or two pair/trips, which I believe is roughly 2% odds respectively.

Also, with your calculations, you're giving villains extremely strong ranges - like AA and KK only - and expect them to stack off when you do flop a big hand. That's pretty optimistic on both ends.

The point is you cannot draw profitably, case in point - you're folding to a psb on the flop. If this is not a 3bet pot, you have a lot more room to play with and calling a psb to draw doesn't seem all the bad now.

At least you have position in this hand, and hopefully villains had AK and 33 and X/F'd. But the results are pretty much pointless so w/e.

If you say SPR one more god damn time Im'a come to your house and hack away all your interwebs cables.

Originally Posted by Carroters

If you say SPR one more god damn time Im'a come to your house and hack away all your interwebs cables.

Does SPR (oops, said it again) bring back bad memweez?

Originally Posted by Carroters

If you say SPR one more god damn time Im'a come to your house and hack away all your interwebs cables.

Originally Posted by Carroters

If we're deeper it'll be fine, but this sort of SPR without much post flop FE in a spot where one pair is still going to play really meh is sucky as hell for your hand and gets worse as your implied odds get worse (his stack % goes down) because yeah you're over estimating how +EV flopping 1 pair and meh draws is going to be in a 3 way squeezed pot with these stacks and such preflop inflation (high SPR)

Now thats out of the way lets move on to this:

Originally Posted by Carroters

If villains squeezing range is light it is way more of a reason to fold pre. The equity we make with marginal draws is still meh and our implied odds and stack off % are cut considerably in this case. It being multiway we still wont have heaps of FE even if his range is wide and will still likely have to play draws in this same way a lot of the time. You make his squeeze range light, then you desimate his stack off % and your preflop play is definitely bad and in no way compnesated by having slightly more EV when you flop meh draws.

We're going off in a tangent as SBs range is far from 'light' in this pot. However I'd like to address your points anyway.

When he squeezes light his lower stack off % is somewhat compensated by his higher cbet %. If he plays passively because he got called in 2 spots and is OOP then yay because now we're basically HU against a guy whos range is very easy to read (its full of PP and suited broadways) with position.

Clearly when villain is 3betting wider when we hit top or middle pair it is going to be more profitable than if he has a tight range. It being a 3 way pot the villain is much less likely to try and barrel us off it with air. Most of the time our 1 pair hands will be very easy to play.

Similarly, when we flop 'meh' draws we do have added FE in alot of spots. I'm not sure how you can dispute this, it seems obvious if his range is weaker he has to fold more often. We can pick alot of good spots to do this because utg+1s range is so easy to read.

Lol I can quite easily berate a guy for saying SPR and then use it myself twice in one post without being a hypocrite. Newer players tend to dwell on SPR too much and neglect other important stuff because it's a neat tempting concept. I wasn't suggesting SPR is in itself useless or that there's anything wrong with referring to it as part of your analysis. If you understood that the same concept can be applied differently in different arguments and to different degrees or that a jokey rant at a feesh for dwelling on it doesn't necessarily infer general hatred of the concept you could have saved yourself that outburst.

Okay Viscaro, I'm going to offer you some honest advice before this thread goes any further. It's something I've noticed from your posting style, not just with myself but with almost everyone who's responded to your posts. I don't mean this personally so please don't feel the need to defend yourself.

This forum is not generally a dick waving pride fest. While a few people do have rather large egos, there is generally an understanding that no one means anything personally and it's just the nature of poker players and their competitive spirit. Taking offense and feeling the need to retaliate with your "wit" in an arrogant manner to everyone who posts you advice is a perfeclty natural response for a lot of people and pretty typical of new kid/big playground syndrome. This forum isn't about arguing for arguing's sake like other mindless corners of the internet are. It's about mutually helping one another achieve the same common goal, so there's honestly no need to feel threatnened by people trying to help or reply in such a combative manner as you have so far; this will only discourage people from posting in your threads in the future. You'll eventually realise as a poker player/poker student that you have fuckloads to learn and your ego is a hinderance and not an advantage. You'll learn to leave it outside, both on the tables, where this'll allow you to stop spewing in marginal spots and stop worrying so much about being exploited where no exploitation is occurring etc etc...avoid common ego induced micro grinder mistakes, and also on the forums where leaving your ego behind will help you assess things more objectively/critically. When you learn that noone can actually reach out and harm your penis, you'll realise there's no need to be on a high horse all the time.

I think you have potential as a player, but this shit is a major obstacle right now. That's my two cents, take it or leave it. Many others here can second this because loads of us have had problems with ego; you're deinitely not alone in that respect.

The only reason I take the time to make this rant is that I do feel you have potential and could learn to channel it in such a more constrcutive way. I wouldn't waste my time if I thought you were a hopeless retard so take something from that.

Originally Posted by Carroters

...you could have saved yourself that outburst.

Right back atcha. My 'outburst' consisted of one smilie.

Originally Posted by Carroters

Okay Viscaro, I'm going to offer you some honest advice before this thread goes any further. It's something I've noticed from your posting style, not just with myself but with almost everyone who's responded to your posts. I don't mean this personally so please don't feel the need to defend yourself.

This forum is not generally a dick waving pride fest. While a few people do have rather large egos, there is generally an understanding that no one means anything personally and it's just the nature of poker players and their competitive spirit. Taking offense and feeling the need to retaliate with your "wit" in an arrogant manner to everyone who posts you advice is a perfeclty natural response for a lot of people and pretty typical of new kid/big playground syndrome. This forum isn't about arguing for arguing's sake like other mindless corners of the internet are. It's about mutually helping one another achieve the same common goal, so there's honestly no need to feel threatnened by people trying to help or reply in such a combative manner as you have so far; this will only discourage people from posting in your threads in the future. You'll eventually realise as a poker player/poker student that you have fuckloads to learn and your ego is a hinderance and not an advantage. You'll learn to leave it outside, both on the tables, where this'll allow you to stop spewing in marginal spots and stop worrying so much about being exploited where no exploitation is occurring etc etc...avoid common ego induced micro grinder mistakes, and also on the forums where leaving your ego behind will help you assess things more objectively/critically. When you learn that noone can actually reach out and harm your penis, you'll realise there's no need to be on a high horse all the time.

I think you have potential as a player, but this shit is a major obstacle right now. That's my two cents, take it or leave it. Many others here can second this because loads of us have had problems with ego; you're deinitely not alone in that respect.

The only reason I take the time to make this rant is that I do feel you have potential and could learn to channel it in such a more constrcutive way. I wouldn't waste my time if I thought you were a hopeless retard so take something from that.

This isn't about 'cock waving', this is about not blindly accepting useless advice unless it is effectively reasoned out or backed up by maths. I haven't been personally offended by anyones posts, but I would obviously prefer if they would rationally argue their points instead of 'hurr durr this is retarded fold pre'. That doesn't help anyone

Originally Posted by Carroters

Lol I can quite easily berate a guy for saying SPR and then use it myself twice in one post without being a hypocrite. Newer players tend to dwell on SPR too much and neglect other important stuff because it's a neat tempting concept. I wasn't suggesting SPR is in itself useless or that there's anything wrong with referring to it as part of your analysis. If you understood that the same concept can be applied differently in different arguments and to different degrees or that a jokey rant at a feesh for dwelling on it doesn't necessarily infer general hatred of the concept you could have saved yourself that outburst.

Okay Viscaro, I'm going to offer you some honest advice before this thread goes any further. It's something I've noticed from your posting style, not just with myself but with almost everyone who's responded to your posts. I don't mean this personally so please don't feel the need to defend yourself.

This forum is not generally a dick waving pride fest. While a few people do have rather large egos, there is generally an understanding that no one means anything personally and it's just the nature of poker players and their competitive spirit. Taking offense and feeling the need to retaliate with your "wit" in an arrogant manner to everyone who posts you advice is a perfeclty natural response for a lot of people and pretty typical of new kid/big playground syndrome. This forum isn't about arguing for arguing's sake like other mindless corners of the internet are. It's about mutually helping one another achieve the same common goal, so there's honestly no need to feel threatnened by people trying to help or reply in such a combative manner as you have so far; this will only discourage people from posting in your threads in the future. You'll eventually realise as a poker player/poker student that you have fuckloads to learn and your ego is a hinderance and not an advantage. You'll learn to leave it outside, both on the tables, where this'll allow you to stop spewing in marginal spots and stop worrying so much about being exploited where no exploitation is occurring etc etc...avoid common ego induced micro grinder mistakes, and also on the forums where leaving your ego behind will help you assess things more objectively/critically. When you learn that noone can actually reach out and harm your penis, you'll realise there's no need to be on a high horse all the time.

I think you have potential as a player, but this shit is a major obstacle right now. That's my two cents, take it or leave it. Many others here can second this because loads of us have had problems with ego; you're deinitely not alone in that respect.

The only reason I take the time to make this rant is that I do feel you have potential and could learn to channel it in such a more constrcutive way. I wouldn't waste my time if I thought you were a hopeless retard so take something from that.

so, we got a new bc mod yet?

very nice post dude.