Ring Game Problem

I don't have a hand history, or anything like that, but I'd like general comments to a problem I faced tonight.

Background: I am generally experienced in tournament play. Because I am busy, I don't get to play a huge amount, and when I do, I like tournaments or Sit & Go's because generally the hands go faster, and it's just my preference. I've been doing better in them recently, finishing 13th in a freeroll with 500+ the other night, and finishing in the money pretty frequently.

Anyway, tonight I decided to try a 0.05/0.10 ring game (NL) on Bet on USA. For one, it was a LOT looser than tournaments. You'd commonly get 5-6 callers pre-flop. There were some raises pre-flop, but maybe only 3 of every 10 hands or so.

Anyway, because the game was loose, I tried to be tight and it didn't work very well. I played about an hour, and got very few premium hands. I did have some connectors (out of position), and A-low card hands but I let them go, because almost everything I have read says not to play them. I also let go 99 when there was a 50 cent raise to my right. I am not sure if that was a good call. Opinions?

The problem is, if I ONLY play premium hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK, and limping for small pairs and the occasional suited connector, I am not going to be playing many hands. In an hour, I probably played maybe 6-7 hands, which is at most 10%.

I've heard a lot of people say that you should play 18-25% of hands. How can you possibly do this, without playing terrible hands?

Also, the people were generally calling stations. Bets 3x or 4x the big blind were often called by people chasing flush draws, or people with 2nd top pair!

There were a few times I was tempted to show people down, but I also don't like taking reckless risks, when they could have a dangerous hand.

What's the best way to tackle this situation? I guess these players would be referred to as "fish." So how does one beat a game like this?

{This post has been removed}

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

When I am playing my best game in the ring I am seeing upwards of 50% of flops...sometimes as high as 60%....raising in position with 5/3s, 8/9s...anything with any potential whatsoever

Full table 40-50% is LAggy enough. Are you playing too many hands out of position?

{This post has been removed}

I have observed 1000nl a couple of times and seen this. There will be a bunch of players sitting around waiting for their aces while one crazy lag beats up on a player that has know idea what he is doing but who is apparently made of money. The lag will isolate this bad player over and over and use their supperior play to take all their money but fold when one of the tag starts betting hard.

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

Fnord

loosen up mang

40 % ???

pfffffft

:P

Let me know when you're cashing out buckets of money from ring games.

Ripptyde states...

When I am playing my best game in the ring I am seeing upwards of 50% of flops...sometimes as high as 60%....raising in position with 5/3s, 8/9s...anything with any potential whatsoever

What difference does the action in front of you make ? For example would you raise a 3x BB bet ? Or do you only play these hands if everybody has limped in ?

work on raising (with no bets before you) with ANYTHING...isolating your opponent with that raise....and then as first to act following up with a pot sized bet regardless of whether you hit the flop or not

I take it you would only do this in late position ?
Do you look for a "tight passive" table so that you can take control and dominate ?


I am still a newbie so my experience is limited to playing Party/Empire NL $25. I have a few observations about the lower stakes. I feel that such opportunites to loosen up do not happen too often at this level. When in mid -> late position there will almost always be limpers or raises in front of you.

Even playing hands like this I am still seeing about 25% of flops....
Last night had 97s on button. 3 limpers in front, I raised 4xBB and got 2 callers. Flop KKx. Checked round to me, bet 2/3 the pot and all folded. Easy. A month ago I would have limped pf and then folded on the flop. So I am learning.

Every table is different and I do try to play as tight / loose as is appropriate. But I don't think I am quite ready to see >50% of flops on any Party NL $25 table

Find your own style of play, but listen to advice on this forum and try out some different styles of play. I think the best advice so far is to watch the other players well and take notes.

Example of a read saving money:
Recently I've played with a player who is loose-aggressive-passive in his style. He will raise lots of hands, create a bluffing image and with great skill take stacks from players who try to take him out. He also reads bluffs very well. He has been winning alot from others around me (about 200$), but I'm still down only 4.5$ towards him after 500 hands, still waiting for the right hand to call down his bigger bluffs for a major pot. In short - I avoid taking him on until I know I have the right hand and position. This means that I might fold my JJ on the flop towards him, while I would raise another player with the same hand. I would not bluff him all in with A high either.

Example of a read winning money:
This guy seems to hate me after loosing to a JJJ set I caught on the turn after he slowplayed 777. So everytime he sees me he goes for my stack... My read says he will bluff all in very often if he doesn't hit his flush and he chases flush all the time with Axs and Kxs. So I will call his all in on the river even with top pair and I have now taken most of his stack three times

Another good advice I learned from some comment on this forum is to change table. Don't get married to a table. If the players and the position you have on the table isn't good or the action doesn't fit your play then move. It's not a good idea to stay at a loosing table because you want to get even. I sometime play three tables, then after a short while I eliminate the table I don't like and continue the two better ones.

It's in my opinion ok to play 50% of the flops for a shorter time, given the right table, stack, and the right cards, but for me 18-30%. seems to work best. If I like the table I play close to 30%. If I loose too many "medium" hands I tighten up to 18-20% and try to play more safely and concentrated. Too tighten up easy just focus on folding medium hands in early and middle position. Let them connectors go

You mention middle pair players. I think some of my biggest losses have come against someone calling my preflop raise and then again calling a pot bet on the flop with say A9s and a K29 flop against my AK, and then they finally hit a 9 on the turn. This will happen and I think sometimes a middle pair is very much worth playing, given that the oponents stack is big enough if you hit. To avoid this from oponents try to bet higher preflop to get them out. Players have different figures for what they concider a folding preflop bet. I usually bet 4xBB with strong hands, but if I get 5-6 callers on a very loose table I start to bet 6-8-10xBB because someone will call you anyway. And with AA, 5 callers and a QQ9 flop you should fold to any raise

Many people at this forum will tell you to raise more preflop. That advice is good, but you shouldn't start to raise everything to increase your PFR%.
In fact I find it hard to get higher than 4.5-5% PFR even when I raise: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo, AJs and some other hands I only raise from late position. So I find I have to raise medium to bad hands to get higher than 5% PFR and so far this has only cost me money. Improve your aggressive play on the good hand before you start raising the "bad" once.

I'm not a great poker player, played less than a year, but I get along fine now and play almost only 0.25/0.5$ NL 10 player. I started with 200+50$ bonus and bankroll is now 1400$ - including a bad beat jackpot of 275$ though.

Good luck in the ring

Originally Posted by Borax

Don't get married to a table.

I'd emphasize from my own experience how important this is. Recently Ive been LAGGing it up on Ladbrokes (like their insta cash-out to my card), and have ended up getting married to a table too many times. Normally goes like this.
Sit down with $200-ish
Make it up to $700-900,
Don't notice that the people who's money I've taken have now left and have been replaced by sharks,
Drop back to $200,
Smack my head off the wall,
Leave.

All because I got too maried to the table (admitedly because it was a walkover, Ladbrokes is primarily brits and scandinavians who seem to not like my style of play).

Don't
do
it.