Rant

Man, I really have to complain now. Vent. Yesterday I already had the impression people kept sucking out on me an inordinate amount. It's hard to stay calm through that.. I can handle a few with no problems. I also handle it when I make mistakes. But when I manage to do the right thing over and over and they KEEP sucking out on me way more than simple odds seem to suggest - that gets annoying after a while.

And today it's happening again..

Stuff like this:

> Game # 789,711,278 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards

My hand: 5c5d

R0dO> lol
> bisounours1 sits down
> nicky247 checked
> p0ke3dude folded
> R0dO called for $0.05
> jackvance checked
> Dealing the Flop(5c2d9s)
> R0dO bet for $0.40
> jackvance raised for $2.40
> nicky247 folded
> R0dO called for $2
> Dealing the turn(6d)
> R0dO bet for $0.50
> jackvance raised for $5.50
> R0dO went all-in for $5
> Dealing the river(4d)

Rod0 shows 9dTd

> R0dO wins $15.80 with a Flush, Diamonds


Do you guys have that too? I've already grown a shield against bad luck. But sometimes it just happens too much, and it "overloads"..

And bad play.. I can take that. Like today I lost a stack b/c I called an all-in where shoulda known I was beat. No problem. I reload. Ended up taking my stack back from the same guy 2 minutes later, so that was cool. But these suck-outs.. god..

And playing when annoyed is a recipy for disaster. So I guess I just have to take a break now.

Nope. I've never been sucked out on. That stuff only happens to fish.

Doesn't this belong in Bad Beats?

It happens. It's poker.

SHUT UP!!!!!!

Hey easy on. No need for that. Just let a mod move this to bad beats and leave it be.

sorry, It just never ends. I swear its just a broken record that comes on every morning when I log on, as if I haven't had enough of my own bad beats last night. I try to avoid the negative story's and stay out of the bad beat sections.

hmmmm i'd get the deck checked out- i notice there are 2 5 of clubs there, the one in your pocket and the one on the board- or is that just me?

hehe, sorry- not very helpful! This kind of thing happens, you made the right bet values, to put him off his top pair and even reduce his flush draw on the turn- there is no explanantion for the guys play...

However if you keep doing the 'right' things you will avoid these things long term...

If he wants to race Top pair and a backdoor flush draw against your set So Be It. I'll take that bet anyday if anyone wants to...

ok let me try this another way. You bet into a fish holding top pair and expected him to fold. You were trying to get him off the flush but he had TPMK and from my experience that's what you want them to have when you get a set. He wasn't chasing the flush, he didn't think you had anything because you checked from the blind. TPMK with a flush draw I'm staying in as well without a much better read(which by the way most 5NL and 10NL's don't do). Your Fishing for carp with a 300,000 dollar boat. get a worm on a hook and wait.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

What is that? And what does it all mean??

I've been looking at it for a while and I can't figure it out either. But I did read another post where rondavu mentioned the flying monkey rant. But the meaning ???

Haha. It's my flying tilt monkey. Poster is tilting.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

ok let me try this another way. You bet into a fish holding top pair and expected him to fold. You were trying to get him off the flush but he had TPMK and from my experience that's what you want them to have when you get a set. He wasn't chasing the flush, he didn't think you had anything because you checked from the blind. TPMK with a flush draw I'm staying in as well without a much better read(which by the way most 5NL and 10NL's don't do). Your Fishing for carp with a 300,000 dollar boat. get a worm on a hook and wait.

What on earth are you going on about? I'm not saying I regret my play. I generally don't even care anymore if they suck out on me like this, these are the guys that are paying me off most of the time too!

The point was kinda the "threshold" for tolerance. That even though you "know", it still gets under your skin if it happens *too much*.

Atleast with me.. maybe other people here are cold as ice no matter how much bad beats you take, but not me. However I don't think just trying to ignore it is a good idea either.. I want to know clearly, for myself, if I lose a hand if it was bad play or bad luck.

Haha. It's my flying tilt monkey. Poster is tilting.

Lol.. ok, well I took a break to calm down. Guess that's better than continuing to play :P

Yesterday I had a funny thing with "tilt".. a guy had just sucked out on me big time.. so the very next hand he raises preflop, and I just push my remaining 60BB stack. Another guy at the table said "tilt". Villain called me. I flipped aces. I figured it would tilty to push there, and it worked. A third guy even complimented me on "representing tilt" there lol.

Oh and I was actually curious to hear how often you guys have something like this? That it just becomes "too much"? (and hopefully you can stop playing)

I swear to you that these hands all happened within 5 minutes of each other last night. I was 8-tabling, so I probably knock off about 500 hands an hour, so these are still within 40 or so hands of each other if they were all 1 tabled.

Table 'Jubilatrix' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Lukieplaya ($409.60 in chips)
Seat 2: mozzer2001 ($676.35 in chips)
Seat 3: magnum701 ($402.65 in chips)
Seat 4: boomer1976 ($69.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Smedley ($230.40 in chips)
Seat 6: gagz24 ($344 in chips)
Seat 7: karbursak ($406.95 in chips)
Seat 9: menexus ($403.40 in chips)
Smedley: posts small blind $2
gagz24: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [Qh Qd]
karbursak: folds
menexus: folds
Lukieplaya: raises $10 to $14
mozzer2001: folds
magnum701: calls $14
boomer1976: folds
Smedley: folds
gagz24: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc 2d Kh]
Lukieplaya: bets $24
magnum701: calls $24
*** TURN *** [Qc 2d Kh] [Kd]
Lukieplaya: bets $59
magnum701: calls $59
*** RIVER *** [Qc 2d Kh Kd] [Ah]
Lukieplaya: bets $155
magnum701: calls $155
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Lukieplaya: shows [Qh Qd] (a full house, Queens full of Kings)
magnum701: shows [Ac Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Aces)
magnum701 collected $507 from pot


(I seriously considered folding preflop because I thought it was unlikely that this guy would make this play without aces, but at least I made the right choice).

Table 'Arequipa' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Lukieplaya ($390 in chips)
Seat 2: SCL77 ($366.05 in chips)
Seat 3: SonnyRey ($110.70 in chips)
Seat 4: matawispar ($433.90 in chips)
Seat 5: Ckrad ($396 in chips)
Seat 6: rdegs21 ($393.50 in chips)
Seat 7: AmberBoat ($402.80 in chips)
Seat 8: The Hobbitt ($516.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Jbigtymes ($277.05 in chips)
matawispar: posts small blind $2
Ckrad: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [Kd Ks]
rdegs21: folds
AmberBoat: folds
The Hobbitt: folds
Jbigtymes: raises $16 to $20
Lukieplaya: raises $46 to $66
SCL77: folds
SonnyRey: folds
matawispar: folds
Ckrad: raises $330 to $396 and is all-in
Jbigtymes: folds
Lukieplaya: calls $324 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8h Ad 9c]
*** TURN *** [8h Ad 9c] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [8h Ad 9c Ts] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ckrad: shows [Kc Ac] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
Lukieplaya: mucks hand
Ckrad collected $799 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $802 | Rake $3
Board [8h Ad 9c Ts 8d]
Seat 1: Lukieplaya mucked [Kd Ks]
Seat 2: SCL77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: SonnyRey (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: matawispar (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Ckrad (big blind) showed [Kc Ac] and won ($799) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 6: rdegs21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: AmberBoat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: The Hobbitt folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Jbigtymes folded before Flop


Table 'Anchialos II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: TIME2BUY! ($319.80 in chips)
Seat 3: KFKYF ($554.55 in chips)
Seat 4: tsifknits ($392 in chips)
Seat 5: luckwanted ($362.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Lukieplaya ($786.80 in chips)
luckwanted: posts small blind $2
Lukieplaya: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [As Ac]
TIME2BUY!: calls $4
KFKYF: folds
tsifknits: calls $4
luckwanted: raises $16 to $20
Lukieplaya: raises $48 to $68
TIME2BUY!: folds
tsifknits: folds
luckwanted: calls $48
*** FLOP *** [3c 5c 6s]
luckwanted: bets $100
Lukieplaya: raises $618.80 to $718.80 and is all-in
luckwanted: calls $194.20 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [3c 5c 6s] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [3c 5c 6s 4s] [Qs]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
luckwanted: shows [Qd Qh] (three of a kind, Queens)
Lukieplaya: mucks hand
luckwanted collected $730.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $732.40 | Rake $2
Board [3c 5c 6s 4s Qs]
Seat 2: TIME2BUY! folded before Flop
Seat 3: KFKYF folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: tsifknits (button) folded before Flop
Seat 5: luckwanted (small blind) showed [Qd Qh] and won ($730.40) with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 6: Lukieplaya (big blind) mucked [As Ac]



I was bitching to gabe about it on AIM, and he gave me some great advice. (seriously)

g1u (10:47:35 PM): stop bitching dude variance hapepns to everyone
....
g1u (10:51:06 PM): shut up please
....
g1u (10:52:04 PM): i dont care dude
g1u (10:52:06 PM): seriously
g1u (10:52:08 PM): man up



And from now on, because of that little punk, I'm no longer going to tilt and I'm no longer going to whine about putting my money in with the best of it when I lose and there was nothing I could have done about it. Goddamnit gabe, I hate you.

meh - I'm not moving it to bad beats cuz it says rant so we knew what to expect.

There is a lot to gain in learning how to not talk about bad beats - when you talk about them, you dwell on them which simply is not good for your game. But all of us, especially beginners who are trying to move their way up teh ranks, become frustrated when the game doesn't go as "it is supposed to" and feel the need to vent. Usually the need to vent is also just a plea for reassurance that you are not playing bad and that things will turn around.

Yes we all take bad beats, one of teh signs of becoming a better player is the ability to move on from them.

As an aside, it took me forever to get, but PokerTracker has helped my tilt monkey tremendously. I can look over the hands from a session and truly discover if I was getting hammered by bad luck - or if I was letting bad luck affect my play. Quite simply, the latter happens a lot more than any of us want to admit ("if it wasn't for luck, I'd win every time)".

Originally Posted by Lukie

I swear to you that these hands all happened within 5 minutes of each other last night. I was 8-tabling, so I probably knock off about 500 hands an hour, so these are still within 40 or so hands of each other if they were all 1 tabled.

Ugh I can't even imagine how much this would suck at the limits you're playing at and all the much more money involved compared to my pissy limit..

I was bitching to gabe about it on AIM, and he gave me some great advice. (seriously)

g1u (10:47:35 PM): stop bitching dude variance hapepns to everyone
....
g1u (10:51:06 PM): shut up please
....
g1u (10:52:04 PM): i dont care dude
g1u (10:52:06 PM): seriously
g1u (10:52:08 PM): man up

And from now on, because of that little punk, I'm no longer going to tilt and I'm no longer going to whine about putting my money in with the best of it when I lose and there was nothing I could have done about it. Goddamnit gabe, I hate you.

That is great advice. Seriously, for me too. But even though you "know".. it keeps being annoying.. I am semi-proud of myself though to have had the wits to stop playing instead of continuing on and blowing heaps more on frustration/tilt.

Originally Posted by chardrian

There is a lot to gain in learning how to not talk about bad beats - when you talk about them, you dwell on them which simply is not good for your game.

Yeah I totally agree here. Normally I just move on and it turns out ok. But I think it's unrealistic to expect that you're gonna be cold as ice no matter how bad it goes.. sometimes you just get that "last drop". Or not?..

As an aside, it took me forever to get, but PokerTracker has helped my tilt monkey tremendously. I can look over the hands from a session and truly discover if I was getting hammered by bad luck - or if I was letting bad luck affect my play. Quite simply, the latter happens a lot more than any of us want to admit ("if it wasn't for luck, I'd win every time)".

Ah yes, yet another reason for me to get PT

This is why I hate the micro tables. I'm trying to build on my skill of reading players, but at these stakes its impossible because people misrepresent with hands like that.

When I play super tight I actually lose money because I raise 4x bb preflop, miss the flop, cbet 50% anyway, but all the fish bet and raise huge on their middle pair low kicker.

Originally Posted by RevolverX

This is why I hate the micro tables. I'm trying to build on my skill of reading players, but at these stakes its impossible because people misrepresent with hands like that.

When I play super tight I actually lose money because I raise 4x bb preflop, miss the flop, cbet 50% anyway, but all the fish bet and raise huge on their middle pair low kicker.

I wish I could find tables like that. Where I play, it's all ABC poker, nutcamping and fold fold fold. I steal so many pots it's uncanny. If you raise they figure you have the nuts or something. So imagine, I then *finally* manage to trap a guy with a weaker hand calling my all-in (after all these fold fold folds) and then he sucks out on me..

JackVance: The two places I've played, Party & Paradise are far more on the loose side than ABC. (At $5NL/$10NL).

If your properly rolled for the limit you're playing, than who cares about bad beats? Within a few hundered/thousand hands they'll even out. Plus they happen to absolutely everyone that plays the game. I can see a case for someone who gets sucked out on in a final table of a large MTT, but otherwise, if it's a couple percent of your role, what's the big deal?

RevlovlerX: Stop throwing out c-bets then into a 3+ person pot. Seriously. If you have A high and no draw, you don't want to build the pot. I can see why you'd c-bet heads up, as there's a decent chance your opponent will fold if he's missed the flop too, but it's unlikely that multiple opponents will miss. Or if you are going to throw out a c-bet try making it 25% of the pot instead, at least it will cost you less.

Good luck.

It sucks, but as has been said we all have to learn to deal with it. The hand you posted though isnt as bad as you made it out to be, villain was out of the SB and only completed, you checked behind and saw a flop. He hit TP you hit a set, at these stakes the players will go to the felt with top pair and sometimes they will draw out on you.

Take a note on this guy, rebuy and then get your money in against him as a big favorite again.


And revolver, if people are always calling your cbets, then dont make them so much, especially in multiway pots. At the lower limits this is suicide and is costing you a ton of money. If all the players are betting and raising huge with middle pair then you should be making a solid profit by playing ABC poker.

YOu know what I do about this entire subject? And it helps me out tremendously.

since I playmost tournaments this applies to those, but I am sure it applies to ring games also.

When I am in tournaments and my tournament life is on the line and I suck out on some poor soul, I make a tick in my notepad I keep by my comp while I play and I also send that hand to my email (through pokerstars send handhistory option).

So I keep a record of how many times I've sucked out and won when I was behind, so when I do get sucked out on and I get all pissy I just look at that and realize it happens to everyone.

Originally Posted by jackvance

> Game # 789,711,278 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards

My hand: 5c5d

> Dealing the Flop(5c2d9s)

quit making up stories or at least do a better job at it
anything with twins would be good,,,-- hold on you already did that one 5c5c

Originally Posted by yorib

JackVance: The two places I've played, Party & Paradise are far more on the loose side than ABC. (At $5NL/$10NL).

If your properly rolled for the limit you're playing, than who cares about bad beats? Within a few hundered/thousand hands they'll even out. Plus they happen to absolutely everyone that plays the game. I can see a case for someone who gets sucked out on in a final table of a large MTT, but otherwise, if it's a couple percent of your role, what's the big deal?

Hm, seems I didn't communicate my point properly in my first post. What I was awkwardly trying to say was that even though I know all these things (like you mention here, what does it matter in the long run right?), it *still* got under my skin just now! Usually keeping things in perspective is enough to shrug it off, keep calm and play on normally, but now it just kept happening so it finally cracked me I guess.

But I think I handled it well. I could have kept playing while frustrated (tilting) and as such blown heaps more money than that one bad beat had cost me - I have done that in the past. But I took a break, only played again just now. Session of about an hour, +$30. I had some better tables.. either they were idiots or a few of them got riled up by my constant Laggy play. Whichever it is, now no bad beats or suckouts and then I can do better

About them all playing tight at 10NL on unibet.. I kinda like it to be honest. My Lagg game works there, and the play is very low variance. I want to go play at 20NL, because it's much looser and more aggressive there, where I think I can do good too, but I need to be rolled for it. The reason, as I see it, is that the play there is a lot more "high variance". That comes with aggro. I need a proper roll so I can start calling their bluffs - because occasionally they might have it so I need to be able to catch the downswings. That's a lot less necessary at the passive ABC-poker game they play at 10NL.

The plan is now to get atleast $300, preferably $400 - if I can restrain myself that long, but it *would* be the wisest thing to do. I think if I can master 20NL like I have 10NL (and I feel I can, I've just never had the roll try it out long enough) then I think I can finally make the profit needed to buy PT and to move to other sites too. Bonus whoring, looser games, I want those . But I'm trying to not get ahead of myself now.

to the person complaining about their cbets getting no respect:

tighten up your raising requirements (stop raising AJ from early position), and cbet when you miss the flop less, especially in multiway pots.

Originally Posted by flomo

Originally Posted by jackvance

> Game # 789,711,278 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards

My hand: 5c5d

> Dealing the Flop(5c2d9s)

quit making up stories or at least do a better job at it
anything with twins would be good,,,-- hold on you already did that one 5c5c

Woops, my hole cards were from memory, not copy pasted, so it was any two other fives.

jack, you do know that after a 1,000 posts, it is against the rules to start new threads in the beginners circle. so check out the 6-max section

good luck
flomo

j/k

Originally Posted by Rondavu

That monkey be fly.

What's a bad beat?

Originally Posted by flomo

jack, you do know that after a 1,000 posts, it is against the rules to start new threads in the beginners circle. so check out the 6-max section

good luck
flomo

j/k

I don't have 1k posts yet..

Suckouts happen.
Too many suckouts in a row happen
And yes, A streak can last longer then you can imagine...

If you feel your game is good keep playing, if you are tilting stop for the day/week/month whatever it takes to cool off.

Originally Posted by TLR

If you feel your game is good keep playing, if you are tilting stop for the day/week/month whatever it takes to cool off.

A few hours did it.. afterwards I played 3 more hours at 50ptBB/100

Originally Posted by jackvance

And bad play.. I can take that. Like today I lost a stack b/c I called an all-in where shoulda known I was beat. No problem. I reload. Ended up taking my stack back from the same guy 2 minutes later, so that was cool. But these suck-outs.. god..

Im exactly opposite to that. Bad beats rarely piss me off, but if I make a terrible crying call or try to bluff into a calling station I piss myself off.

Originally Posted by givememyleg

What's a bad beat?

There's some hand in Ace on the River (Barry Greenstein's book) where in college he lost his entire bankroll on some hand where he was all in on the turn and his opponent had one out.