QQ in NL ring game

hey all, i am very experienced in limit but inexperienced in NL.

i played a live NL ring game for kicks over the weekend. $1/$2 blinds, $100 min buy-in. ten handed and wild. guys were going all-in blind. normal pre flop raise was $8-$15.

i got dealt crapola for like 2 hours straight. i got QQ once, raised to $17 and still got two callers. flopped a set but also an ace so nobody called me.

about an hour later after folding a million more hands and missing a couple flops, i got QQ again in LP. maniac guy raised to $17. i was ready to take him down by going all-in with my $65 remaining. i knew he had crap.

but then this guy in between us went all-in for $460. he had been raising big pre flop with premium hands all night. i never saw him go all-in like that.

should this have been an easy fold for me? how often do you chuck QQ pre-flop in NL HE?

ChezJ

With that read, you have figure you are a coinflip at best....

- sed

If your read was accurate... I'd say you made a smart, disciplined laydown.

sadly i didn't fold. i had played so few hands, i was impatient, and called all-in.

first guy had AQ. all-in guy had KK, flopped a K, and rivered the case K for quads. talk about overkill!

well i told you i'm inexperienced at NL... my question is, do you regular players find yourself folding QQ preflop a lot? because in limit, i would never, ever do it. you can't lose your whole stack if you're dominated in limit.

ChezJ

I don't like to go all in with any pocket pairs unless its AA or KK... You seemed like you had a good read on that guy (probably tight) so I dont know whether calling that would have been the best play. I think you may have gotten unlucky though...

Originally Posted by ChezJ

sadly i didn't fold. i had played so few hands, i was impatient, and called all-in.

first guy had AQ. all-in guy had KK, flopped a K, and rivered the case K for quads. talk about overkill!

well i told you i'm inexperienced at NL... my question is, do you regular players find yourself folding QQ preflop a lot? because in limit, i would never, ever do it. you can't lose your whole stack if you're dominated in limit.

ChezJ

Chuck it man you can find a lot better spots to get your money in then pushing preflop with QQ in a 3 way pot. Also you need to realize that just because you have been folding for hours does not in any way give you any right to play less then your best poker. I don't care if you fold for 24 hours play smart!

how about KK or AK? do you ever lay those down pre flop?

again, i'm just not experienced enough in NL to know what is standard operating procedure.

ChezJ

chez, that should be an easy fold. If a good player raises all in, its time to muck the queens.

I have layed down AK many times preflop. The only time I have layed down KK is early in a tourny with a couple of all ins in front of me.

Laying down KK preflop is rare. I probably would not even do it with 2 all ins in front of me early in a tourny.
Laying down AA preflop you are either doing it to prove that you can, or you are stupid.
Laying down AK can be much more frequent. I've done it many times when on the bubble with another very short stack going all in in front of me. However it is rare in a full ring game to lay to down preflop unless you've got a rock making huge preflop bets.

Raise and big re-raise in front of you, lay down QQ almost evertime. The second guy is basically telling you he has either has AA or KK, possibly AK, or that he's an idiot, in most cases.

It's hard laying down AK or QQ, especially after getting crap for hours, but you'll regret it long-term if you don't in that situation. I don't know that I've ever layed down KK preflop, so if you get beat by AA over KK just give credit and move on. Laying down AK or QQ is the exception but not that uncommon.

You will occasionally see people make this move(reraise) with something like QQ JJ or even any two cards, but it's pretty rare. Not worth the risk.

Originally Posted by ChezJ

how about KK or AK? do you ever lay those down pre flop?

again, i'm just not experienced enough in NL to know what is standard operating procedure.

ChezJ

ak I would laydown in that spot But KK I am going to lose all my money with KK there.

peace
wwonka

thanks all, that's what i wanted to hear. lesson learned.

If it's a headups all in against a loose player, i'd call with QQ, but QQ doesn't stand up well multi way (3+). good fold.

as far as KK goes, i've heard johnny chan himself say "i dont think i've ever laid down KK, that's hard to do".

of course we all know when to fold AA/KK but in a cash game, take the coin flip.

as an update, i am a little more experienced at NL today than i was earlier this week. i played a local NL tournament (freeroll league) on wed nite and beat a field of 50 to place #1. then i played a cash game tonight ($10 buy-in, 10/20 cent blinds) and quadrupled my stack by calling 4 all-ins with a dominating hand (3 of them against the same poor ass). i thinking i might be gettin' the hang of this NL stuff...! :-0

of course i was not dealt QQ once, but the guy next to me got it 4 times and lost huge the first 3 times. it's really not such a good hand. meanwhile AK kicked ass left and right.

ChezJ

QQ is the worst hand ever. i dont think i've ever been able to win with it. ever.

Originally Posted by omgbadbeatzlol

QQ is the worst hand ever. i dont think i've ever been able to win with it. ever.

You guys smokin' something
QQ is a great hand, you just have to be a little careful with it and be able to lay it down, even preflop if there's too much aggression shown.

Originally Posted by Aces

Originally Posted by omgbadbeatzlol

QQ is the worst hand ever. i dont think i've ever been able to win with it. ever.

You guys smokin' something
QQ is a great hand, you just have to be a little careful with it and be able to lay it down, even preflop if there's too much aggression shown.

i just hate it. whenever i get it i get screwed over. even if i make a set with it, someone manages to river an inside straight.

i'll call the BB with QQ, but i just hate those bitches so much that i wouldnt even call a minimum raise with it, even against a loose player.

but its personal. i dont expect to be able to explain it any other way.

Originally Posted by omgbadbeatzlol

Originally Posted by Aces

Originally Posted by omgbadbeatzlol

QQ is the worst hand ever. i dont think i've ever been able to win with it. ever.

You guys smokin' something
QQ is a great hand, you just have to be a little careful with it and be able to lay it down, even preflop if there's too much aggression shown.

i just hate it. whenever i get it i get screwed over. even if i make a set with it, someone manages to river an inside straight.

i'll call the BB with QQ, but i just hate those bitches so much that i wouldnt even call a minimum raise with it, even against a loose player.

but its personal. i dont expect to be able to explain it any other way.

QQ actually won me 2 showdowns last night after going nearly a month never winning a showdown.

It was so sweet.

-'rilla

I lot to QQ with AJ. Floped my J, with 2 diamonds out there I bet hard, QQ comes over the top, and I make the call. =/ Guess he wasn't bluffing that time.