QQ in the BB vs a Reg

So here is the situation.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) -

MP1 ($19.45)
MP2 ($11.05)
MP3 ($10)
CO ($13.15)
Button ($5)
SB ($10.50)
Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($15.30)
UTG+1 ($11.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with QcQd
4 folds, MP3 bets $0.30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, MP3 raises to $2.20, Hero calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.45) Ac, 2h, 9h (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.80, Hero ????

Villain is a reg, I see him around the tables all the time. He is a typical TAG player. I don't think he is 4 betting lite, I put him on JJ+ and AK. Even tho the flop bet looked kinda weak, I didn't want to come over the top and try to steal. Interested to see what you guys would do in this spot.

For a typical nit reg, I would take JJ out of his 4b range. This is AA/KK/AK most of the time. I think you're fine calling pre to see the flop, and I'd get it AI with an overpair. His smallish bet here on the flops just screams value, imo.

min-raise/fold. The 'A' makes it less likely he has one and I'd expect this type of player to play super honest facing this line.

can't say i know what to do on the flop because i don't think i've ever in my life flatted a 4b OOP 100bb's deep.

do you have any 3b/4b/5b history against villain? how has he reacted to 3b's in the past (F23B, etc)? what's your image with him, or does he have any reason to believe you ever have a hand worse than the exact one you hold?

i would probably fold, but if we're continuing i would suggest calling more than min/raise fold if we're going to continue with QQ (as a float to steal the pot later from KK or we can look to check it down)

Originally Posted by surviva316

do you have any 3b/4b/5b history against villain? how has he reacted to 3b's in the past (F23B, etc)? what's your image with him, or does he have any reason to believe you ever have a hand worse than the exact one you hold?

This is the first time he 4bet me in this situation. Usually when I would 3bet from the blinds he would flat or fold. I'm not about to fold QQ preflop to him and a 5bet seems like to strong a line here. My image is similar to his, a TAG regular at these stakes. I am perhaps a touch more aggressive than him, I like to 3bet weak stealers from the blinds whenever I have a decent hand. He could have been 4bet bluffing me here with AJ or something here but I doubt it. This time I ended up just folding to his cbet because the only thing I can beat here is JJ.

Originally Posted by TG07GT

I put him on JJ+ and AK.

Shove PF.

Originally Posted by Ravageur

i would probably fold, but if we're continuing i would suggest calling more than min/raise fold if we're going to continue with QQ (as a float to steal the pot later from KK or we can look to check it down)

I've gone over this a few times and I like the idea of min-raising way more in a 3 bet pot and also realize that it's very player dependent; we'd have to have some idea of his flop cbet tendencies. Still it's a hell of a victory when we get KK to fold with a min-raise here which I'm convinced happens fairly often.

Originally Posted by al yell

I've gone over this a few times and I like the idea of min-raising way more in a 3 bet pot and also realize that it's very player dependent; we'd have to have some idea of his flop cbet tendencies. Still it's a hell of a victory when we get KK to fold with a min-raise here which I'm convinced happens fairly often.

Yeah, next time I'm in a spot like this I will have to try the min raise. It would be pretty sexy to get KK to fold here.

Originally Posted by TG07GT

Originally Posted by al yell

I've gone over this a few times and I like the idea of min-raising way more in a 3 bet pot and also realize that it's very player dependent; we'd have to have some idea of his flop cbet tendencies. Still it's a hell of a victory when we get KK to fold with a min-raise here which I'm convinced happens fairly often.

Yeah, next time I'm in a spot like this I will have to try the min raise. It would be pretty sexy to get KK to fold here.

You don't ever want to be in spot like this (flatting a 4bet oop 100BB deep with QQ). I'd 3 bet to $1.20ish because we are oop and fold to a 4bet since it's highly unlikely he's bluffing you in this spot, much more likely his range is KK+,AK.

On that flop his line is either a monster or KK shitting itself (AK would bet more), small raise or fold is better than calling with your stacksize.

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

You don't ever want to be in spot like this (flatting a 4bet oop 100BB deep with QQ). I'd 3 bet to $1.20ish because we are oop and fold to a 4bet since it's highly unlikely he's bluffing you in this spot, much more likely his range is KK+,AK.

On that flop his line is either a monster or KK shitting itself (AK would bet more), small raise or fold is better than calling with your stacksize.

So you would fold QQ to a 4bet? Isn't that a little exploitable? I think he could be 4 betting with AK a lot of times so is it that bad to see a flop and re-evaluate from there? Even if he has KK or AA I still have outs, if I hit my set I'm taking his stack most of the time. I did end up folding on the flop btw.

Terrible. your 3 bet is super small giving him odds to flat you in position, then when he 4 bets you flat because you can see his continuing range is strong, but cant fold QQ pre. You honestly think he'll 4 bet you with JJ here? He has no problem flatting 3 bets from ur history so almost all villians flat JJ maby QQ here depending on what ur pf3b%. Fact is ur call is terrible because you arent going to be able to get more value than a shove would get you oop. You have to do some math and estimates on the villian and decide if his range is wide enough for you to shove profitably.

As a general rule just like dont flat 3 bets or 4 bets oop.

Originally Posted by TG07GT

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

You don't ever want to be in spot like this (flatting a 4bet oop 100BB deep with QQ). I'd 3 bet to $1.20ish because we are oop and fold to a 4bet since it's highly unlikely he's bluffing you in this spot, much more likely his range is KK+,AK.

On that flop his line is either a monster or KK shitting itself (AK would bet more), small raise or fold is better than calling with your stacksize.

So you would fold QQ to a 4bet? Isn't that a little exploitable? I think he could be 4 betting with AK a lot of times so is it that bad to see a flop and re-evaluate from there? Even if he has KK or AA I still have outs, if I hit my set I'm taking his stack most of the time. I did end up folding on the flop btw.

Originally Posted by TG07GT

So you would fold QQ to a 4bet? Isn't that a little exploitable? I think he could be 4 betting with AK a lot of times so is it that bad to see a flop and re-evaluate from there? Even if he has KK or AA I still have outs, if I hit my set I'm taking his stack most of the time. I did end up folding on the flop btw.

that's right. i think i remember reading somewhere that the best way to avoid being exploited by 4b's is to wait until you get dealt QQ and then flat his 4b and c/f to a 1/3 PSB cbet on any A-high flop.

Originally Posted by surviva316

Originally Posted by TG07GT

So you would fold QQ to a 4bet? Isn't that a little exploitable? I think he could be 4 betting with AK a lot of times so is it that bad to see a flop and re-evaluate from there? Even if he has KK or AA I still have outs, if I hit my set I'm taking his stack most of the time. I did end up folding on the flop btw.

that's right. i think i remember reading somewhere that the best way to avoid being exploited by 4b's is to wait until you get dealt QQ and then flat his 4b and c/f to a 1/3 PSB cbet on any A-high flop.

I laughed at this.

Originally Posted by Donkafelts

Terrible. your 3 bet is super small giving him odds to flat you in position, then when he 4 bets you flat because you can see his continuing range is strong, but cant fold QQ pre. You honestly think he'll 4 bet you with JJ here? He has no problem flatting 3 bets from ur history so almost all villians flat JJ maby QQ here depending on what ur pf3b%. Fact is ur call is terrible because you arent going to be able to get more value than a shove would get you oop. You have to do some math and estimates on the villian and decide if his range is wide enough for you to shove profitably.

As a general rule just like dont flat 3 bets or 4 bets oop.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear. I had a feeling I messed up this hand and that's why I posted it, I just didn't know exactly what I did wrong. I'm still learning like everyone else and I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Originally Posted by TG07GT

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

You don't ever want to be in spot like this (flatting a 4bet oop 100BB deep with QQ). I'd 3 bet to $1.20ish because we are oop and fold to a 4bet since it's highly unlikely he's bluffing you in this spot, much more likely his range is KK+,AK.

On that flop his line is either a monster or KK shitting itself (AK would bet more), small raise or fold is better than calling with your stacksize.

So you would fold QQ to a 4bet? Isn't that a little exploitable? I think he could be 4 betting with AK a lot of times so is it that bad to see a flop and re-evaluate from there? Even if he has KK or AA I still have outs, if I hit my set I'm taking his stack most of the time. I did end up folding on the flop btw.

In this particular spot I would fold it. We only get exploited if he starts 4 bet bluffing us which you said is unlikely for him to do.

Say you flat his 4 bet (as played) and think his 4 bet range is {QQ+,AKo}, you are a 62-38 dog.

What flops are you happy to see?

A high flop
- c/f oop or maybe bluff if he shows weakness(min raise)
- overall the worst thing to see.

K high is little better.

All under cards - no value as AK folds, stacking off you chop with one hand (due to combos he's less likely to have QQ here) and are crushed by 2.