Putting someone on a hand (yet again)

Alright, I need help putting someone on a hand. Most of my success comes from nut hands so I need to develop the skill of putting people on a hand (range of hands). What is the thought process? Is it a combination of reading the person then going from there? help!!

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.02/$0.04
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with J K
UTG raises to $0.2, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.2, CO folds, Hero calls $0.2, 2 folds.

Flop: K 6 9 ($0.66, 3 players)
UTG bets $0.8, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.8.

Turn: 5 ($2.26, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1, UTG calls $1.

River: 3 ($4.26, 2 players)
UTG is all-in $2.96, Hero calls $2.96.

Results:
Final pot: $10.18
UTG shows As Kc
Hero shows Jd Kh

I wouldn't call an UTG 5x bb raise with KJo to play it for 1 pair.

If you want to call the flop bet and chase your kicker, that's your option and the odds are against you. Check the turn and fold the river.

As far as putting someone on a hand, unless the player is a LAG, he won't raise less than AQ UTG. And he's not likely to bluff the flop missed in this case.
Range of hands for your opponent on this hand based on his betting pattern and position are AA, KK, AK, QQ (small chance of this).

Originally Posted by DaHorror

I wouldn't call an UTG 5x bb raise with KJo to play it for 1 pair.

Yeah, I had no reads on the villain but these $5 NL ring games cause people to throw out 5x BB PFR like it's their job. But you are right, I shouldn't have called it, or should've been prepared to drop it when I hit resistance with top pair only.

First off you dont want to be calling raises with KJ for this exact reason. If he has AA, KK, AK, KQ and you hit your K you are in big trouble.

If he has QQ, JJ, AQ, AJ, etc. and you hit your K you arent going to win much anyway.

KJ is a hand which is very easily dominated (meaning drawing to less than 3 outs). You can raise with KJ if you want because then you are playing against people who have not shown strength and probably dont have bigger hands than you. The added bonus is you could make someone with a slightly stronger hand (KQ) fold. For now dont go around calling a raise with KJ though.

This is a pot you should never had got involved in but if you want to go around putting people on hands and ranges then you need to do a little more than just call.

He raises preflop so he probably has 2 big cards.
e.g. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ

On the flop he bets into you. This could be a cbet from any of the above hands but if you call you will never know. If you want to see where you are then you have to raise. (note: I am not saying the best play here is to raise I am just saying it is the play that gives you the most information)

AA, KK, AK, KQ will either reraise or call.

QQ, JJ, AQ, AJ all fold.

You now know you are losing.

In this actual hand you should already know where you are preflop. Put yourself in UTGs place. He is first to act and has no idea how strong the hands after him will be. This is not the place to try and steal with 78s. UTG is virtually never bluffing here. If he has a strong hand it beats yours so just fold preflop.

Your goal isn't to put an opponent on a hand as much as a range of hands. Once you narrow the range you imagine how they might play each hand to deduce whether you are likely ahead or behind. For instance....

In the hand you presented, you should put the opponent on a likely range after the flop. Let's assume the villain raises 10% of his hands, and you've seen him limp medium strength hands and mid pocket pairs in LP like 77, A8s or JQ. He continues almost always regardless of the flop after raising preflop. The likely range after the flop becomes rather tight don't you think? He could have TT-AA pocket pairs, or AK AQ KQ. Now according to the villains range in this spot, you're ahead of 4 hands. TT-QQ pocket pairs and AQ.

How does the villains range reveal further on the turn? You bet 20xBB when the 3rd spade hits, and the villain smooth calls you with the K out and 3 to a flush, after continuing into you on the flop. I think it's safe to say you're rarely ahead after he smooth calls. The only hands you beat are any of the 4 hands said earlier with a hopeful spade in it.

Good points, thanks a lot. I need to think the opps possible hands through more, instead of just playing in the dark.

Part of putting people on hands is seeing their past play, seeing a single hand makes it very hard to put someone on a range of hands.

However for this specific hand lets assume villian is a solid player.

A few points
1. Raises from UTG usually means a strong hand
2. On the flop he overbets -> .8 on a .66 pot. It seems like an attempt to take the pot down. Either he made his hand and is afraid of draws or he is trying to bluff with a missed flop. Trying to bluff out of position with an overbet is not a 'standard' play.
3. On the flop you made your hand. you got your top pair. calling here accomplishes very little, you should either fold or raise it.
4. On the turn the 3rd spade hits and villian checks, it seems like he is scared of the draw. Betting here repsenting the flush is a bold but not neccessarily a bad play, but you should have bet more if you wanted to repesent the flush.
5. His push on the river should scare you a bit, There are very few hands that will do that and that you beat.