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Problem situation question

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  1. #1

    Default Problem situation question

    Heres a situation that probably gives me the most trouble. It has to do with Flushes, and the fact that at the lower levels 1$BB and less you get alot of people that play anything suited, even with a decent sized PF raise like 5BB or less. Then if they flop 4 to the Flush (2 in their hand 2 on the board) they will call nearly any size bet as if they are 100% sure they will get their Flush card.

    Sometimes yes you can take advantage of that when you also have a Flush, but a higher one A or K high (which is usually the only Flushes I will play for) Or if they miss their Flush draw.

    Heres the situation though that gives me trouble. When I flop a real good hand like a Set or Str8, but there are 2 of a suite on the board (a suite I dont have).

    Sample hand 0.25$/0.50$ Blinds
    Similar situations can happen alot of different ways with me having different hands. Like I flop a Str8, Set, 2 pair, sometimes TPTK. In this example I'll say I flop a Str8.

    I am on the Button with . Someone in early position PF raises to 3XBB. Two people before me call, plus me. The Blinds fold. So there is four seeing the Flop. Pot is 6.75$ The Flop comee . It checks around to me (maybe someone makes a small raise).

    Heres the 1st problem/decision I have. I know I am in the lead, but there is the Flush draw out there.

    1) Do I try to take down the pot right there, with a pot sized or larger bet?
    2) Do I value bet as much as I think I can without everyone folding, hoping to be maybe heads up? Plus try to get the Flush draws to fold, by not giving them the correct odds.

    Say in this hand I choose option 2 and raise it 5$ (or I could have went with option 1 and raised it 7$ or more). Either way Two people fold one person just calls. I am now heads up. I have say 75$ in chips. Opponent has 55$ Pot is at 16.75$

    Now I am thinking what does this person have? Is he slow playing a Set, 2 Pair. Maybe he has an overpair like 88. Maybe he has A7, but doesnt raise cause he's afraid of me having an overpair and he is hoping to catch another A or 7. Or is he on a Flush draw and like a lot of Low Stakes players doesnt care about Pot Odds when they Flop four to a Flush?

    Turn comes :Ks: My opponent checks to me. Now things start to get sticky. I am wondering. Did he hit his Flush and is going to check raise? Or maybe he plans to just call then make a huge bet on the River.

    Now what do I do? If I dont make a raise atleast as big as my Flop raise. I am basically telling him I am afraid of the Flush, and give him the go ahead to steal the Pot with a big raise. (Maybe I am wrong about this. If I am let me know) Also if I dont make a bet of atleast 7$-10$ (Pot is 16.75$) I give a hand like :As: the odds, or atleast for the some players. The right price to draw for the Nut Flush.

    So I pretty much know I have to raise atleast 7$, but I just have the nagging feeling that I'm already beat. Given that I feel I have to make the raise. (Maybe I am wrong about that, and I dont have to raise. If I am I would like for someone to tell me.) I go ahead and raise 7$ ( not wanting to throw away to much $ if they DO have the Flush). My opponent just calls. Pot is now 30.75$. River comes :Ac:. My opponent raises 15$ or more. What do I do?

    Board is :Ks: :Ac:

    I am thinking.
    A) He may have A3,A4, A7 or AK and hit 2 Pair. Which I could see someone, especially at this level make the Flop and Turn calls with that hand. He now thinks he is in the lead. If this is the case I have a good chance to raise and put him All- In.
    B) He could have been slow playing a Set all along. Which this also gives me a good chance to raise and put him All-In.
    C) He could have been making horrible calls with a hand like AQ. Now he paired his As and figures he is in the lead. A raise here would also be good. I may not get him all in but I will still win a nice pot.
    D) He could have been making bad calls with 52 even. He now has a lower Str8 and this also gives me a good opportunity to raise and put him All-In
    E) Or he could have the Flush. Even without the correct odds on the Flop like I said and many of us know alot of people at these levels. Will call almost anything if they Flop four to the Flush. So there is a real good chance they did hit the Flush on the Turn and then concealed it with a check/call.

    What do I do?

    1) Do I push? Hoping he slow played a Set. Or he hit 2 pair on the River. Or he made bad calls with 52 and has a lower Str8. Or he just made real bad calls with a hand like AQo? Or he is just Bluffing? So do I go All-in hoping he calls with a lower Str8, a Set or 2 Pair or he folds with a Pair of As or a Bluff.

    2) Or do I just call to minimize my loses if he does have a Flush?

    3) Do I fold?

    I have tried all the different choices and have had all the different results. This has got to be the most difficult type of situations for me in Poker. I have alot of trouble with it and I would love to get some advice on how to handle situations like this (what to do through out the whole hand) from some better more experienced players.

    Thanks in advance.
  2. #2
    Maybe i'm on the tight-weak side. But in a situation like this you have a very important advantage (besides a very strong hand): POSITION.
    That equates to pot control. Now here you are either way ahead or drawing totally dead. If you are way ahead, you're not getting too many calls from others, but if you're way behind you're getting called. Also, you could be bluffed by a tricky TAG (there are some at 50NL, no mistake), or a maniac/drunk.
    I prefer to check behind, keep the pot small. That way i acheive two things:
    I might encourage a bluff, or if the 4th spade doesn't fall i might give the impression that i don't have the flush either, thus getting a call from a hand that wouldn't have called the turn.
    If he does lead WITH the flush, i stand to lose much less than if i had not checked the turn behind

    IMO
  3. #3
    I didn't read your post very closely but on the flop you probably want to bet 3/4 to pot sized because both a flush draw with overs and an overpair are more likely to try to make a move at the pot. Alos because 1/2 pot bets are going to have almost the same calling range as pot sized.

    About the turn and river I'm going to have a really hard time folding this unless 2 spades come. Don't fold unless it's really conclusive that opp has flush. I.e cold called the flop and then check/raised the turn for value.
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  4. #4
    I am a quite aggressive player so what I say might not be suitable to everyone and most likely be wrong. You are absolutely right that at low limits flush chasers quite often ignore pot odds and call decent bets. I personally like to bet ¾ of the pot with a good hand after the flop if two suited cards are shown and I don’t have any of them. At the turn I would still bet my straight if checked to me but as I said I am very aggressive when I’ve made my hand.

    Now without wanting to hijack your thread, if I do not have position and the scare card comes out on the turn, would you a check/raise a straight here?
  5. #5
    AHiltz's Avatar
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    Pot the flop. Check behind on the turn. If checked to on the river bet 1/2 pot for value.
  6. #6
    Now without wanting to hijack your thread,
    Your not at all. I am hoping to have a good discussion about the different possibilities with hands like this.

    if I do not have position and the scare card comes out on the turn, would you a check/raise a straight here?
    If I were 1st to act. With out any reads on opponent. I would probably make about a 1\2 pot raise. Hoping that would be enough to make :As: not want to draw to the Flush. Also to maybe rep I am value betting a flush and hope that my opponent doesnt have a Flush or has a low one and folds. I feel like a check would be an open invitation for opponent to bluff.

    I will most likely with no read fold to a reraise.

    Pot the flop. Check behind on the turn. If checked to on the river bet 1/2 pot for value.
    You dont feel that a check on the Flop is inviting a bluff or giving :As: a free draw? Or would you just think that most of the time if they didnt bet the Turn they didnt have a Flush?
    Whats your move if they make a 1/2 Pot raise on the River?
    If they make Pot size or larger bet?

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