Preflop raising and then post flop play

Been at this for about 5 months now. Consider myself basically breakeven or perhaps slightly profitable player. Typically I play .25PL 10 person ring games. What I am looking to do is "move up" in profitablility and have identified lack of PFRs as the likely culprit for my running in place.

So here is just one scenario where'd I'd like some comment.

Say I am on the button or even the CO. Say there are 3-5 callers ahead and the table is reasonably loose (meaning there are at least a couple of people who will call/raise with crap). I have A J suited. So instead of just calling, I think I should be betting at least 4XBB or betting the pot. Let's say BB reraises with pot sized bet. Everyone folds except UTG+1, and of course the BB.

From what I have read, I should probably call. Flop comes out A 7 2 rainbow (obviously a scary flop would bring a different answer here). BB checks, UTG+1 checks ... do I bet the pot or just 1/2?

Question #2 (follow on) ... I bet 1/2 and BB calls and UTG+1 folds. Just two of us now. Turn card is K Q or J or maybe even whatever. BB checks. Now what do I do? I'm worried that BB might be slow playing a set. If I check, is that showing weakness and allowing BB to get a free river card? If I check and BB bets hard, do I fold?

I realize these are rather basic but I just don't want to be aggressive and learn the hard way that my approach and thinking was all wrong.

Thanks in advance to all who have comments.

Ok thats alot of questions all rolled into 1. Now I havnt played much PL Holdem but from what Ive heard/read its very much no foldem holdem. Ill give it a go but im going to assume its a pretty loose passive game so if it isnt then youll have to totally ignore what im saying.

Originally Posted by LeadSledDog

So here is just one scenario where'd I'd like some comment.

Say I am on the button or even the CO. Say there are 3-5 callers ahead and the table is reasonably loose (meaning there are at least a couple of people who will call/raise with crap). I have A J suited. So instead of just calling, I think I should be betting at least 4XBB or betting the pot. Let's say BB reraises with pot sized bet. Everyone folds except UTG+1, and of course the BB.

With that many limpers you should be raising alot more to think the field. maybe 6-8BB depending on how loose the table is with calls (make it potsize if thats as high as you can go). I would expect alot more than 2 callers given how much money is in the pot before your raise.

From what I have read, I should probably call.

If you make a potsize bet with AJ and then get reraised another potsize bet by someone who knows they will be out of position for the rest of the hand you should seriously consider folding. There is too much of a chance you are dominated unless he is a habitual (re)raiser.

Flop comes out A 7 2 rainbow (obviously a scary flop would bring a different answer here). BB checks, UTG+1 checks ... do I bet the pot or just 1/2?

I would have folded preflop but say I got this far. I want to find out if he has a better A pretty soon so I want to be betting fairly strong. I probably make it above 3/4 pot and if he calls I want a cheap showdown.

Question #2 (follow on) ... I bet 1/2 and BB calls and UTG+1 folds. Just two of us now. Turn card is K Q or J or maybe even whatever. BB checks. Now what do I do? I'm worried that BB might be slow playing a set. If I check, is that showing weakness and allowing BB to get a free river card? If I check and BB bets hard, do I fold?

If youve hit the J thats great. You are now trying to extract as much value as you can. If the card is a Q, or K it most likely hasnt changed anything. You are probably still behind to a higher A (or maybe now 2 pair) if you were behind before. KK and QQ probably would have bet the flop or maybe even checkraised but probably not just called.

I realize these are rather basic but I just don't want to be aggressive and learn the hard way that my approach and thinking was all wrong.

Thanks in advance to all who have comments.

These are my thoughts but im probably not overly qualified to answer your question to start off with

Originally Posted by LeadSledDog

I realize these are rather basic but I just don't want to be aggressive.

Aggressive is good

There are fewer resources availalble for PL than NL. PL is a fairly different game. In short, big pairs go down in value as they're difficult if not impossible to protect. Conversely drawing hands go up in value as it's harder to be bet out of a pot. There is also a premium on building pots and postflop play.

That's the way it's been explained to me, and in my limited experience with PL too.

Why are you playing PL? Are you afraid of losing too much playing straight NL? I don't ask this sarcastically - I started out online playing PL because I didn't understand BR mgmt etc etc etc.

Originally Posted by Blinky

Why are you playing PL? Are you afraid of losing too much playing straight NL?

Yup ... maybe I should rethink it. I can win many smaller hands $4-$15 pots but can't seem to win enough of them. I find that I am "winning" about 7 hands per 100 and according to PT, my PFR % is less than 5%. Like to get that up but it's the post flop play that has me worried about what to do when.

Thanks for the comments so far.

At the moment im always playing PL, theres often only 1-3 tables runnning but the reason I play is their high av pots and plyrs/flop %s (always 40+%).

I play it like NL and tbh oly a handful of times has itbeen any different, whereby I want to push and couldnt... the difference between pl and nl isn't too great imo. Most of the time you're able to raise the amount you would at a NL table. Its just the players are way looser for some reason!!!

Theres probably more value in fast playing your strong hands, seeing as players are looser and you need to build that pot... e.g. lead out to pfr with your set, so he has to re-raise bigger, beefing up the pot so you *can* get allin at the turn, or even 3bet the flop and get yourself and villan commited if he calls.

I actually wounder if Im overly aggressive post flop.. PAHUD gives me a TA of 6-10! But i do have a low vpip of 12-15. I just cant stand playing weak/passive post flop.... i dispise it! i have to be the aggressor unless im trapping... even with a weak hand tpwk i have to raise and re-raise... think i need to learn to become passive more for cheaper SD's

With regards to PFR's the general guideline is 5-6%... however im only just 4%.. im just not too comfy playing large pots with mediocre/less than premium hands.

BTW in ur situation you don't have to worry about trips from a re-raise on a Axx board seeing as you hold one of the A's.. Being outkicked is more likely.. but as is said if you get resistance aim for cheap SD.

You need to make a bet on the turn that you can get away from.You're betting to save money(as well as prevent from giving free cards).This will eliminate the need to call/fold uncomfortable river bets and wonder if you laid down the best hand or not.

Sorry to get of the real subject but, is there any advise on the FTR that addresses Pot Limit Hold’em?

Currently I only play Limit but I know that further into my poker learning experience I will play No Limit and Pot Limit hold’em to improve my game. There is lots and lots of advice on NL but I have not come across anything on PL!