position

i came to this realization today that the idea of almighty position always dictating everything might really just be an illusion of initiative at times. Just out of curiosity, how many people check 100% OOP hu on the flop vs most regs? edit:after calling their open*

not 100% but darn near close to it.

Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

i came to this realization today that the idea of almighty position always dictating everything might really just be an illusion of initiative at times. Just out of curiosity, how many people check 100% OOP hu on the flop vs most regs? edit:after calling their open*

I donk 52% on av

i just like to bet a lot, often with little regard to position. multiway from bb i may check top pair depending on board texture

oh wait, i just realized the question. is this assuming were calling from the blinds? i dont like flat calling from oop vs a reg open. if im not in the blinds, then that means that i raised before, and the reg 3bet me, which means im only continuing with a pretty strong range here, or possibly set mining if the price is right. if i am in the blinds, then im raising any hand here that i would be flat calling with, with the exception of hands like suited connectors/ low to mid pps, assuming im last to act preflop, in which case cool implied odds are cool. given my awful understanding of implied odds though, whether thats a good strategy or not should be taken with a grain of salt.

that said, if said reg min 3bets me....well, the only few players who ive seen do that consistently are absolutely awful postflop, so i just flat and play accordingly.

on a side note, what kind of ranges do you guys cold call reg openers from oop?

i ussually dont cold call vs regs OOP . but if i do, i donk any flop w/ 8+ outs and any flop that doesnt hit his range. also donk strong hands vs regs.

I think i flatcall pocket pairs or air verses regs, with the view to check raising. depending in villians cbetting habits. Must check my DB when i get home.

i have a "donk flop" stat on my hud. i think mine is something like 12-15%, which is probably pretty high for a reg at my stakes. i honestly think that there are a lot of regs who react really, really badly against donk bets of any kind, but especially on the flop. i've only really recently started investigating the idea but, as "un-cool" as it is, i think there is a decent amount more $ we could all be making by thinking about who/when to donkbet because literally no-one i've encountered at 100nl FR/6m and below seems to have a strategy which involves donking/reacting to donks.

edit: ok i've not played enough 100nl 6m to warrant making that comment.

Yeah, people either fold too much or bluff raise too much to donk bets. I have around 11% but I think I could get away w/ more. Should probably go experiment w/ donk bets some more.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

i ussually dont cold call vs regs OOP

i think you would benefit greatly from learning how to do this

about 25-75, check-call/raise/fold are all pretty close

Originally Posted by rpm

i think you would benefit greatly from learning how to do this

what is the goal behind this? building a medium pot with mid holdings?

what kind of range might you cc with vs a tag reg for profits?

I'd start by flatting AA/KK OOP sometimes, especially vs. TAGs who fold to 3-bets too much from the BTN. You can also flat with some hands like AQs/AJs/KQs etc. C/R a shitton of boards.

When TAGs see a reg flat them they probably assume they have some sort of medium-value range and auto c-bet A-/K-high boards. So if you flat them with this range you obviously own them on these boards and can start C/R them on JTx/QTx and stuff.

Originally Posted by Zorkion

what is the goal behind this? building a medium pot with mid holdings?

to be able to play a wider range of hands profitably.

Originally Posted by Zorkion

what kind of range might you cc with vs a tag reg for profits?

go here http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ay-187190.html and do some of these types of exercises. pick a random reg villain from your stakes, pretend you are facing a BU open from him in the big blind, then form all of your ranges and give a little bit of your reasoning for why you are flatting/3betting/folding certain hands. receive feedback. improve. repeat.

position is not having the illusion of initiative.

how much information do you get if you're ip and your opponent checks 100%?

how difficult is it to take pots away on the turn and river oop?

Originally Posted by rpm

to be able to play a wider range of hands profitably.



go here http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ay-187190.html and do some of these types of exercises. pick a random reg villain from your stakes, pretend you are facing a BU open from him in the big blind, then form all of your ranges and give a little bit of your reasoning for why you are flatting/3betting/folding certain hands. receive feedback. improve. repeat.

thanks for the link, a very useful read!

a lot more than being ip. i really have no idea what im talking about, but i thought that there might be a lot of merit in taking initiative oop on the flop vs regs. is a leading benefit of being ip on the flop that you're ip on later streets (where pots are larger and any equity is moar +ev)? i had only thought that position only gave you extra information, and the option to check behind. i guess i have a lot more to think about now :s

Originally Posted by eugmac

thanks for the link, a very useful read!

no probs. fwiw, i don't necessarily agree with/endorse all of the strategic points i made/conclusions i came to when i did it. however i think the processes i went through to come to those conclusions are reasonably sound.

Depends on what we have if we flat from the blinds then most likely were checkfolding with the occasional checkraise in there. IMO. 3betting is always better vs. A reg due to the gain in fold equity. Now I'm going to read the other responses.