i guess i didnt think it as "clear" as i said. but, this is what used to get me FLAMED like hell on these boards. i used to fold this, at donkey-stakes, almost everytime. i have a max of 4 outs to improve, and 2 players are putting their stacks in after i bombed the flop with a serious raise.

they held AJ and J9. i just dont want to draw to 4 outs when WB and stacks are already in.

this is one where i would say its a "read based" laydown, not a "math based" call. i would buck the math in a situation like this because the donkeys are telling me to. how often is this TP or a draw? maybe a big draw, but not with the caller. they are not BOTH on draws. i used to get flamed for using my "instincts" instead of math when i had a smaller edge. and, thats fine. i used to carry a 10+/100, too. i make more equity based calls, and my winrate sucks now...and my variance shot through the roof. granted, i'm running really poor, but i used to be able to drop this hand, and lately, i havent been able to let it go. i was happy to finally give a little credit to donkeys...and be right.

sorry, that's not intended to be a rant.