I think it's a great example Ryokan. To be honest, in this situation you may be surprised by what the correct answer is.

But again, this is a fundamental flaw that I, and Jyms(it appears) are more than willing to help with, but I really wish that Spenda would split this from the thread so we can attack this without de-railing the thread into a 2/4 rule - evaluating equity and draws and whatnot.

What really surprised me is that this is something I consider to be one of the ABC's of ABC poker, and there isn't an article about this stickied in our "learning starts here" area.

Anyway spenda could you split this so we can attack this sucker head on and not derail your thread