ok fold?

micro limits, villain is 14%vpip and 3%pfr but when he plays a hand, he bets it aggressive postflop.

2 people (including me) limp to the villain, who minraises. He rarely played a hand, and nearly never raised preflop and to me this just screamed he had a big hand and wanted some money in but not lose everyone...I actually put him on aces preflop.
I had seen a few players do the same in a situation like this and it nearly always was KK or AA.

I held QTs and called because I figuered since I (at the time) was rather sure I knew what he held, I wanted to see a flop.

Flop comes A T Q different suites, giving me 2 pair. I still believed villain had aces but wasnt willing to lay the hand down here if he makes it cheap. He raised about 1/3 the pot and I called.
Turn came an harmless 8. He bet rather weak again (~1/3) and I called.
River came another Queen giving me a full house. But aces would get the better fh and so would AQ.
He pushed, I pondered and...folded.

Any thoughts on the hand? Bad fold? Fold earlier with the read?
I really feel like he had aces, but still...

Edit: actually I think I reraised his flop bet and he called.

Theres at least 10 hands that would push river that you beat, and only 2 that beat you. I'm calling here 99% of the time unless I have a great read on villian.

I think you played your hand pretty badly.
preflop: I dont mind calling a minraise even if you think you are behind due to implied odds.
On the flop is where you screwed the hand up - you are either ahead or behind and drawing dead if he has AA (actually drawing for runner-runner quads which is as good as dead) if you think u are behind fold, if you think that you are ahead play like you are ahead - but unless you meet other evidence play the rest of the hand consitently.

By the way you described him AA is a very possible hand

There is no shame in folding 2 pair

Originally Posted by TLR

I think you played your hand pretty badly.
preflop: I dont mind calling a minraise even if you think you are behind due to implied odds.
On the flop is where you screwed the hand up - you are either ahead or behind and drawing dead if he has AA (actually drawing for runner-runner quads which is as good as dead) if you think u are behind fold, if you think that you are ahead play like you are ahead - but unless you meet other evidence play the rest of the hand consitently.

By the way you described him AA is a very possible hand

There is no shame in folding 2 pair

He had a boat. It's just as likely villian had AK/KK/JJ. If you had reraised the flop to show strength the river call/fold would be much easier.

PFR makes it pretty clear hes not holding AQ. Personally I dont think villian is holding AA here often enough to lay this down.

Originally Posted by Margin Of Error

Originally Posted by TLR

I think you played your hand pretty badly.
preflop: I dont mind calling a minraise even if you think you are behind due to implied odds.
On the flop is where you screwed the hand up - you are either ahead or behind and drawing dead if he has AA (actually drawing for runner-runner quads which is as good as dead) if you think u are behind fold, if you think that you are ahead play like you are ahead - but unless you meet other evidence play the rest of the hand consitently.

By the way you described him AA is a very possible hand

There is no shame in folding 2 pair

He had a boat. It's just as likely villian had AK/KK/JJ. If you had reraised the flop to show strength the river call/fold would be much easier.

PFR makes it pretty clear hes not holding AQ. Personally I dont think villian is holding AA here often enough to lay this down.

Correct but there are two points I tried to make
1. Once he decided to play the hand on the flop he had to play it all the way - if he called the flop he had to call the river
2. There is nothing wrong in folding 2 pair if you think you are behind

Its easy to say fold when you are behind, play when your ahead.
Here, the problem was there were only two hands that beat me. So even though I had a strong read/feel that he was holding AA, I felt it would be weak to fold my 2pair to the first sign of aggression.

Btw I did reraise the flop (which he called), I edit it in.
I dont remember how much I reraised though but it was not enough to define his hand, which I feel like was my main mistake. If I had reraised like a man on the flop, I probably would have known where I'm standing.
@TLR: is that what you meant? Or do you think I should decide on the flop and then either follow through no matter what, or fold?

Originally Posted by Margin Of Error

Theres at least 10 hands that would push river that you beat, and only 2 that beat you. I'm calling here 99% of the time unless I have a great read on villian.

Well I had a very strong read

Originally Posted by Wyvver

Its easy to say fold when you are behind, play when your ahead.
Here, the problem was there were only two hands that beat me. So even though I had a strong read/feel that he was holding AA, I felt it would be weak to fold my 2pair to the first sign of aggression.

Btw I did reraise the flop (which he called), I edit it in.
I dont remember how much I reraised though but it was not enough to define his hand, which I feel like was my main mistake. If I had reraised like a man on the flop, I probably would have known where I'm standing.

OK just to set the record str, there are more then 2 hands that beat you - AA,QQ,TT,KJ, AT, AQ are all way ahead of you.

I agree that it is very easy to say fold when you are behind raise when you are ahead, it is also very true, and it holds true regardless of the hand that you have.

OK so you reraised the flop and got called, indicating he has some hand.
What is your line of reasoning for calling a turn bet and then folding on the river when you hit the card you were looking for.
Put another way, the only reason you should fold the river is if you are sure he has AA, and then you have no reason to call the turn bet

Yes that was a mistake, I never said I played the hand good (thats why I posted the hand). However it's not really a easy hand as well. The mistake was not defining my hand earlier, but I still think the fold on the river was the right decision (aside from not getting to this situation in the first place).

Originally Posted by Wyvver

Yes that was a mistake, I never said I played the hand good (thats why I posted the hand). However it's not really a easy hand as well. The mistake was not defining my hand earlier, but I still think the fold on the river was the right decision (aside from not getting to this situation in the first place).

I never said it was an easy fold, and I am not convinced it was correct to fold.

It is a very intersting hand to post since there is a lot to laern and analyze from it

Now that I think about it there might have been other factors involved from previous hands that day.

Like I said, I think two other times that day a tight player minrased preflop in a limped pot with only ~3 players, and both times it was AA or KK (and I have seen this play other times before in the micro limits).
I just felt so sure he had aces, not only because of the minraise, but because of everything he did.
Those 1/3 pot bets just seemed so much like he was trying to build the pot (or even hope for me to see it as weakness and reraise).
He definately wasnt the type that would make weak 1/3 pot bets with a hand he is unsure of where he is standing.

If he wasnt sure his hand was the winner, he would have either raised bigger to see whats going on, or even fold to my reraise (he definately was able to make laydowns).

With this flop, any hand except Aces had to be scared when it's all tight players. ATQ, so many possibilities for a tight player to hit it.

Originally Posted by Wyvver

Now that I think about it there might have been other factors involved from previous hands that day.

Like I said, I think two other times that day a tight player minrased preflop in a limped pot with only ~3 players, and both times it was AA or KK (and I have seen this play other times before in the micro limits).
I just felt so sure he had aces, not only because of the minraise, but because of everything he did.
Those 1/3 pot bets just seemed so much like he was trying to build the pot (or even hope for me to see it as weakness and reraise).
If he wasnt sure his hand was the winner, he would have either raised bigger to see whats going on, or even fold to my reraise (he definately was able to make laydowns).

With this flop, any hand except Aces had to be scared when it's all tight players. ATQ, so many possibilities for a tight player to hit it.

QQ and TT can also feel very cozy

Originally Posted by TLR

QQ and TT can also feel very cozy

Thats true, but I dont feel like he would minraise preflop with QQ, let alone TT. He would have either limped it or made a normale sized bet preflop.