Nit ring BvB with AKo OOP

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($2.50)
MP1 ($14.38)
MP2 ($10.56)
CO ($6.59)
Button ($3.65)
Hero (SB) ($10)
BB ($18.19)
UTG ($3.39)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
4 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.40, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.10) 2, J, A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, BB raises to $1.60

Villain in this hand is pretty much unknown seems a bit aggressive and could be a bit on the looser side but it's hard to say without any real history.

His flatting range is enormous to cbetting this board is beyond standard since there are all kinds of things he will call at least one street with.

His raise size is weird because it's two BB over a minraise. A fairly pessimistic range to put him on would be something like JJ, 22, AJs+, KcQc, AJo+ for doing this with. I doubt he really raises any other flush draws with position but it's hard to say. Despite the 3.7:1 odds I am getting flatting puts me in a kind of ugly spot since the only turn I really want to see is a non-club K which narrows my clean outs to 2. Raising without any history also seems pretty bad since he already has more nut hands in his range than I do and he's never going to be folding anything better. Yes, he may call with worse (AQ, NFD) but that's a smaller portion of his range than the made hands.

Folding is w/e given the odds so I suppose calling and hoping to spike the K is fine. I guess that's probably the best line although folding is probably about the same and maybe a little bit more EV. Especially since I feel kinda gross c/fing this if the turn is a total blank.

{Edit: Don't post the final pot in your HH, it gives away the results. --spoonitnow}

I kind of want to snap fold just because its a power min raise from a donk

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

I kind of want to snap fold just because its a power min raise from a donk

whats a power min raise? is it where its not a minraise because its larger than a minraise? i thought that was just a raise

Defo not folding without more info, fish do this with Ax pretty frequently, just call and re eval the turn. He should define his hand pretty well on later streets. If he starts bombing I'd consider folding.

Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

whats a power min raise? is it where its not a minraise because its larger than a minraise? i thought that was just a raise

Power min raise is a min raise + 1 bb

actually in this case its a couple bb's, but close enough.

A fairly pessimistic range to put him on would be something like JJ, 22, AJs+, KcQc, AJo+ for doing this with

I think his range is wider than that (and probably weaker) given the dynamics of the BvB situation. First if he is LAG, would he not 3-bet preflop most of the hands you put him on? Second he may well be making a stand with Ax against your apparent steal/c-bet, and just "power min raising" the flop so he can get away cheaply "in case you really have the goods". Your flop bet is on the smallish side, so that may have enticed him to think that you don't have an ace. For the same reason, he might be doing this with his entire preflop range rather than flatting your flop bet (more so if he is LAG). Also if he had a strong made hand, would he not raise more on such a board?

I think I would 3-bet/fold this flop to $3.3 to get some value from all his Ax and flush/straight draws, and still be able to lay down our hand if he shoves. If he folds, so be it. If he calls and the turn is a blank for him, bet/fold.

And if this is completely stupid or the raise size I proposed is wrong, I'd appreciate if one of the more experienced players who already posted above to explain why.

The problem I have with flatting his flop raise is giving a free card on such a board and "what do we do on the turn?". As OP said, there are not many turn cards we like.

Originally Posted by daviddem

I think I would 3-bet/fold this flop to $3.3 to get some value from all his Ax and flush/straight draws, and still be able to lay down our hand if he shoves. If he folds, so be it. If he calls and the turn is a blank for him, bet/fold.

So you want to make the pot like 7 dollars with 6.30 in stacks and then b/f the turn?

You're right, the b/f part doesn't make sense. So it's either c/f the turn or shove it, depending on what card comes.

Do you think the "raise the flop" bit is stupid as well?

Raise/folding the flop really sucks if he is shoving draws or stuff like AQ with any frequency, like it's just so bad if he's ever doing this. I'd want more of a read that he is going to be passive/stationy vs a flop 3 bet with draws and worse aces and also be surer that he raisdes the flop with them in the first place before I'd raise fold here.

Seriously a guy like this will likely start bombing better hands on turn/river and gay betting, checking worse hands quite often. Because of this we lose the least amount of money when beat this way (unless we fold the flop, but like I say I think his range is defo too wide for us to do that for this price) and we still get to call turn and value bet river or even raise a small turn bet if he shows he's likely got the weaker part of his flop raising range on the turn.

Thanks for the insight. I spent a lot of time thinking about this hand today because this is a situation that often arises and the choices are always difficult without good reads. I understand how calling may be > 3-betting here against an unknown opp. I wrongly assumed that he was just going to call or fold his Ax or draws, but indeed if he shoves them, it's quite ugly.

So the plan after calling the flop would be to check most turns? But then what? Let's say the turn comes 4d or Td or a club. Pot is $4.70. We check, he bets $2.70. Now I am really lost, no idea what to do. What would you do?