New game at UB "royal hold 'em" 20 card decks

http://www.ultimatebet.com/promotion...em.html?l=game

strategy?

fold fold AI fold fold AI fold fold AI fold fold AI

something like that

yea..

its only limit :/

Sounds crrraazy.

Big action game.

hehe i read this as 20 decks of cards.
Now that would be a crazy game...

Talk about crack for the action whore. Only AKQJT's? Just camp on quads. Or you can lay down quads to a Royal. Then you can tell your friends you layed down quad aces while leaving out the 20 card deck details.

I think the funniest thing ever would be sitting down at this table and getting dealt 72 offsuit. I'd quit poker right then and there.

Originally Posted by Pelion

hehe i read this as 20 decks of cards.
Now that would be a crazy game...

Oh Jesus, here comes the 7 Aces story again.

This is probably the worst idea ever. I tried playing this on play money and it's retarded.

I downloaded UB and watched the highest table (i think it was 2/4) and it was hella boring..

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

This is probably the worst idea ever. I tried playing this on play money and it's retarded.

Why?

Maybe its a serious action game that you can learn to crush for a nice little christmas present to yourself. First ones to learn are the first ones to earn.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Maybe its a serious action game that you can learn to crush for a nice little christmas present to yourself. First ones to learn are the first ones to earn.

This is insightful, it seems like a game like this would leave very large edges.

Never mind, it's stupid. Just played it for about 5 hands and it's very very retarded. Don't invest money in this. Please.

Need more information. What makes it stupid? Why is it unprofitable to play better than the others at the table?

I'm very curious to know just how +EV it is, is it more or less beatable than say...regular LHE

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

This is probably the worst idea ever. I tried playing this on play money and it's retarded.

Says the blind man.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by edudlive

I'm very curious to know just how +EV it is, is it more or less beatable than say...regular LHE

New games. Players are going to be very weak.

-'rilla

It could be beatable, theoretically. But you'd probably need to use some extremely advanced math to come up with starting hand requirements (this is where i think the big edge is) and postflop requirements. Keep in mind, this is a limit game, so it's more easily beaten than a NL game. But it's not full-ring, it's only 5-max if I remember (correct me if I'm wrong here). So there are 20 cards in the deck, and at any time you're probably up against whatever the board is showing possible, since after the whole deal there are only 5 cards out of play.

The reason why it's so stupid is because the only flush you can make is a royal flush, when the board pairs it means someone has quads or a full house, the only straight you can make is broadway, etc. So a lot of split pots and one-way action. There are edges and it can be mathematically beaten, just like any game. But to solve a problem like this would take a lot of people who are HELLA good at mathematics and advanced math theories and such.

Not a worthwhile endeavor. I can see this game being taken out of UB's lineup within the month.

I think that someone who was willing to go so far as to calculate all the probabilities for certain things happening would deserve the crushing they would inevitably lay upon the masses. i'm horrible at math and lazy, but a big action game like this just makes me wonder about the possibilities, especially with the newness of the game and its potential to suck in a LOT of fish because of these traits.

heres an example - you fold QJ TJ and KT and let everyone else play those hands. maybe your starting hand selection has just given you a huge edge. maybe on the other hand its better to play every hand and camp for quads. one thing i know that would be good is to let the fish get attached to their underfulls while you prey upon them with top FH being the minimum hand you get involved with.

Thought about this over lunch. No number crunching. Would be interesting to see how hands run hot and cold, etc.

* Every final board will be paired or be a broadway straight
* Outs are over twice as likely to hit
* Straights and flushes are sucker hands. Being suited has little value.
* I suspect a flopped straight is a dog to a set and not doing really well vs 2 pair, but would have to run the numbers. The straight certainly has reverse implied odds.
This is a game of sets, trips, boats and quads.

JJ & TT are sucker hands.

Rough guess as to playable starting hands:
AA, KK, AK, QQ, AQ, KQ (AJ, AT)

I would have to figure out what % of starting hands that is for plability, etc. to hit the desired 1/NumPlayers * 1.5 ish % of hands.

The other interesting thing is blind defense. Can you defend in this game with any 2?

simpler starting hands idea:
play the pairs. go for quads or nut boat.

Originally Posted by Fnord

* Straights and flushes are sucker hands.

Only straights are sucker hands, unless you mean chasing a royal is for suckers. As stated earlier, the only flush possible is a Royal.

Originally Posted by LeFou

play the pairs.

JJ & TT are sucker hands. DUCY?

Originally Posted by Rondavu

As stated earlier, the only flush possible is a Royal.

Over-looked that. Still, it's too much of a long-shot. I'd much rather have trips drawing to the over-full.

okay i'm thinking limp (ha) JJ/TT for quads
Odds for a set I find at (2/18 X 3) = 1/3
odds for quads about 1/27:
1/3 X (1/17 + 1/17)
The good news being that the implied odds for quads are great -- someone will have the nut boat pretty much every time.

My instincts say it's gotta be boats and up. As you pointed out, there's either a straight on board or a pair, and those pairs are going to make boats most of the time.

Originally Posted by LeFou

The good news being that the implied odds for quads are great -- someone will have the nut boat pretty much every time.

Still not often enough for a limit format (except maybe blind defense.)

Originally Posted by LeFou

My instincts say it's gotta be boats and up. As you pointed out, there's either a straight on board or a pair, and those pairs are going to make boats most of the time.

Trips with an Ace looks like a pretty good hand. You might be best and have re-draws to quads and the over-full.

oh, didn't realize it was a limit game.

y'know what it might actually be worth figuring this game out. The people attracted to it have got to be the Worst of the Worst players ("Sweet! I'll have a playable hand EVERY TIME!")

Oh, also "The flop is going to connect with my hand EVERY TIME!!!!!11"
SWEET!"""!!1

Wouldnt pocket aces tear it up? best trips and best full house if you make it...

Or am I just stating the obvious?

Pre-Flop:
Each specific pocket pair is about a 1 in 32 chance.
Any pocket pair is a 1 in 6.3 chance.
AKos is about 1 in 12 chance.

Flop:
Holding a pair, you will flop quads 1 in 51 times.
Holding suited cards, you will flop the flush (and thus the nut as it will be royal) 1 in 306 times.

To the River:
Holding suited cards, chance of making the RF by the river is 1 in 30.6.
Holding a pair, chance of making quads by the river is 1 in 15.3.

Holding a four flush after the flop, chance of making the flush by the river is 1 in 7.5.

These numbers are all from the back on an envelope. I reserve the right to get home, look at them, smack my forehead and edit.

Paired hole cards cannot lose to a straight.. that's probably the first thing that jumped out at me.

Say for instance, you flop a set with a pocket pair, some idiot flops the straight and starts betting like crazy with the current nuts. They cannot win the hand, and only have a very small chance of a split. If they have outs to the royal then that would be the only exception (I think). *

That said, hands like TT and JJ are complete trash unless you hit quads.. still unlikely. Bottom set in a game like this would be like bottom pair in regular hold 'em.

Like others have said, this game would all be about top boat and quads.
AA, KK, AK anyone?

*edit: an out to the royal.. or running cards for the royal..

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

This is probably the worst idea ever. I tried playing this on play money and it's retarded.

With play money holdem is retarted too.....

I think the odds of making a royal off 2 suited is 1/80 or so

can someone please check that!?

i think suited = worthless in this game

Wouldn't a 20 card deck lead to a much higher damage from collusion between players? In a normal 10-full table, if two guys are sitting next to each other then maybe they won't beat the tar out of you. But if there are only 5 cards left in the deck at the end, wouldn't their increase knowledge be even more valuable?

All I know is this seems like a crazy but workable game, I have class in 30 minutes and the whole time I'm gonna be crunching numbers on this idea....

Originally Posted by Dunk

Wouldn't a 20 card deck lead to a much higher damage from collusion between players? In a normal 10-full table, if two guys are sitting next to each other then maybe they won't beat the tar out of you. But if there are only 5 cards left in the deck at the end, wouldn't their increase knowledge be even more valuable?

yes

Also, think about marginal (hold em) hands like KT or QJ. These would be like the 27o's of royal holdem.

Originally Posted by Dunk

Wouldn't a 20 card deck lead to a much higher damage from collusion between players? In a normal 10-full table, if two guys are sitting next to each other then maybe they won't beat the tar out of you. But if there are only 5 cards left in the deck at the end, wouldn't their increase knowledge be even more valuable?

GREAT POINT

Collusion? Does that mean two players playing the same table that no each other running it (telling each other their hands....) They would know 10% more of the cards to start with and it's 6-max according to the website rules (haven't played it yet), so only 3 cards are left out (the burn cards)....