Making virtually NO reads online

Okay, here's a question for all you online gurus.

So, as some of you may know, I've been strictly a live game player here in SoCal. I base my game mostly on reads.

I tried bringing my game to online and had limited success. Making reads is really pretty hard to do when all u see if a freakin' name and a chip count. Notes help, but you rarely see the same guy enough to make it matter. I guess I'm a visual person.

What happened was that with the blinds being so small, it seemed like for every two good reads, I'd make one bad read and the bad read would always cost me more. It's weird, but it seemed that way. Over two months time I went from a $100 bankroll to a $700 just playing sparingly. Not bad, but not really anything to write home about.

So to make a long story short, I decided to give up reads, play multiple tables and started playing way beyond my bankroll. (I only started with $100 and didn't care about losing it since I have a decent bankroll for live games). I'm playing 3 tables of $200NL with a $2,500 bankroll now in just two weeks. I know I'm running good and will hit a downswing, but I started with just $100 so big deal (I already took out $200 actually).

Is my ABC poker with no reads strategy going to last? Are you guys actually able to make good reads while playing multiple tables? I'm just not at that level yet. I basically just lump all online players into one big online player model (which is way different from live) and then make my decisions from there.

Tell me I'm smoking crack. Go ahead. I can't believe this is actually working so far.

You could try moving to a smaller poker room(s) where studying players styles / tendancies and writing player notes has far more benefit.

I play 5 tables and get so bored i rarely study the tables or players for reads and just watch telly or surf whilst playing, tho im only playing .1/.2 NL if i were playing as high stakes as you i doubt id be bored in the slightest and would be looking for improving my edges [getting reads and focusing far more]

I think your attitude towards your BR is pretty awful - even tho you only started with 100$ the current BR is YOUR money not other peoples, its your hard earned $$$ the fact u earnt it playing poker shouldnt mean you give it less respect... it is now ur money just like the money in your bank from the hours you work.

if playing ABC at 1/2 NL without focusing on reads is currently winning you could continue simply for earning another income, you seem to be playing a winning game after all - however I wounder if playing like this may hinder / delay your progression and poker skills.

The most reliable way to get a read is to pick them up through your opponents betting patterns. Once you start taking notes on what hands/draws do what, you'll start to get an idea of what people are holding. Have a look at the instant hand histories after you see a showdown and write down their betting patterns

Originally Posted by SinkRox

You could try moving to a smaller poker room(s) where studying players styles / tendancies and writing player notes has far more benefit.

I play 5 tables and get so bored i rarely study the tables or players for reads and just watch telly or surf whilst playing, tho im only playing .1/.2 NL if i were playing as high stakes as you i doubt id be bored in the slightest and would be looking for improving my edges [getting reads and focusing far more]

I think your attitude towards your BR is pretty awful - even tho you only started with 100$ the current BR is YOUR money not other peoples, its your hard earned $$$ the fact u earnt it playing poker shouldnt mean you give it less respect... it is now ur money just like the money in your bank from the hours you work.

if playing ABC at 1/2 NL without focusing on reads is currently winning you could continue simply for earning another income, you seem to be playing a winning game after all - however I wounder if playing like this may hinder / delay your progression and poker skills.

I'm really serious about my live bankroll. I get extremely stressed out when it starts dipping. But for some reason, I just never got too serious about my online one. I'm serious about it now, but not serious enough to move down limits. If it dips to $1200 or so then I will forced to move down.

I went and played live last night and I sucked. I played some bad poker and dropped $400. The game is so much different live. I can't play the same game at both places. So maybe it is hindering me, but as long as I'm making money, I don't care, lol.

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing the same thing that I do except on lower limits. I can't afford to do other things while I'm playing though. I do need to pay attention. If someone is playing laggy then I'll pick up on that because I see them in a hand all the time. But other than that, I pretty much bunch up the rest of the players. Sometimes this turns into some really bad calls every once in a while. But overall, it's been effective in the SHORT run.

Originally Posted by fjuanl

The most reliable way to get a read is to pick them up through your opponents betting patterns. Once you start taking notes on what hands/draws do what, you'll start to get an idea of what people are holding. Have a look at the instant hand histories after you see a showdown and write down their betting patterns

You can do this while playing multiple tables? Damn! Also, do you do this enough to where it pays off for you? Meaning, you come across the same players over and over again? Or you do it so much that after a while you'll cover all the regulars?

Fjuanl is spot on about the reads. Online poker forces you to read solely based upon the betting patterns of your ops. You may find that this can actually enhance your game live, perhaps, though I wouldn't know since I've never played live. I found that I learned a lot about reading by playing SNGs online since you're forced to play on reads then. Also the setup is unlike the ring games where the player turnover is high as you play.

As for encountering the same ops again, your best bet is to stay away from the huge rooms like Party or Stars, and move to a smaller one. I found that on some other rooms that I would see the regulars all the time when I played. I found that I could make notes from reads on players effectively when I two tabled, but not more than that. Some people can read while quadtabling, but that's getting up there.

Originally Posted by DeusX

Fjuanl is spot on about the reads. Online poker forces you to read solely based upon the betting patterns of your ops. You may find that this can actually enhance your game live, perhaps, though I wouldn't know since I've never played live. I found that I learned a lot about reading by playing SNGs online since you're forced to play on reads then. Also the setup is unlike the ring games where the player turnover is high as you play.

As for encountering the same ops again, your best bet is to stay away from the huge rooms like Party or Stars, and move to a smaller one. I found that on some other rooms that I would see the regulars all the time when I played. I found that I could make notes from reads on players effectively when I two tabled, but not more than that. Some people can read while quadtabling, but that's getting up there.

Good advice, man. Thanks!

It's also useful (or has been to me) to adjust the way you think about reads when you're playing online. If you read well in a live game, a really good read is basically some Jedi shit where you KNOW the other guy is bluffing/drawing/slowplaying/whatever. Since online reads are all about betting patterns, online reads are more of a statistical tendency -- the other guy is LIKELY to be bluffing/drawing/etc.
Factor online reads in almost like you would with pot odds and stack size, etc. but stay away from the tendency to get as married to your reads as you would in a live game.