Looking for some odds

Hello all,

I did a few internet searches and either there is nothing out there for my question or I am searching for the wrong thing.

My question is fairl straightforward. Sitting at any given table with no other variables given, is there any statistical odds for winning a hand when you flop top pair, when that pair is 10's or higher? Or, do you more details (ie, table limits, players in or out, etc, etc.)

Just curious because I am a fairly passive player and it seems like i am getting beat out of a lot of pots where i have top pair off the flop. I get beat out on the turn and river as not much else comes out to help me, so I tend to get "scared" out of pots and fold, only to find out that I would have won with said top pair.

Anywho, just curious.

Thanks in advance

LG

Originally Posted by LucifersGhost

Hello all,

I did a few internet searches and either there is nothing out there for my question or I am searching for the wrong thing.

My question is fairl straightforward. Sitting at any given table with no other variables given, is there any statistical odds for winning a hand when you flop top pair, when that pair is 10's or higher? Or, do you more details (ie, table limits, players in or out, etc, etc.)

Just curious because I am a fairly passive player and it seems like i am getting beat out of a lot of pots where i have top pair off the flop. I get beat out on the turn and river as not much else comes out to help me, so I tend to get "scared" out of pots and fold, only to find out that I would have won with said top pair.

Anywho, just curious.

Thanks in advance

LG

Post some hand histories.

I think you just need more confidence with top pair and you probably need to tighten down so your top pair is usually a queen or better.

-'rilla

A good example is such.

4 players at a $1/$2 table. I have about $100 in chips which is good for 2nd place behind a stack of $125.

Dealt: K7 off suit.
4 players in
Flop: JK3
Turn: 8
River: 5

When the river comes out and someone bets out and/or its raised, I usually bow out. Is that right move?

And you nailed it dead on. Ive never been a confident person in real life let alone at a poker table.
LG

Uh. What was the betting action?

If it's checked down to the river you really can't play it wrong. It's a small pot. You can fold since it's so small. You can call since you figure to be ahead enough. You can raise and easily fold out weak hands.

-'rilla

On that hand, checked around to me and I bet on the flop and got raised. On the turn, checked around to me, I bet and everyone called. On the river, the person who raised on the flop bet out. Everyone else folded. So I dont even know what he was holding.

Originally Posted by LucifersGhost

On that hand, checked around to me and I bet on the flop and got raised. On the turn, checked around to me, I bet and everyone called. On the river, the person who raised on the flop bet out. Everyone else folded. So I dont even know what he was holding.

A better king at the very least. It's a good fold.

-'rilla

Cool. Thanks man.

Another question .. psychologically speaking, i will assume its normal for a player to call into hands more often when your stack is up and/or higher than the rest of the table. For example, normally when starting out, i would never call a 10-6 suited. But when i am up a bit (say50 - 75% of my starting amount), i tend to occasionally play those hands to "see what happens" for lack of a better term. That normal? Again, i would say it is but Im not sure.

As for the confidence thing, its that plus a combination of bad luck. The other night, I was in a hand heads up in a $5/$10 game.

Dealt: KK
Flop: K8A
Turn: K
River: A

When the river came out, I thought to myself "As if he has pocket A's. What are the odds? Besides, at this point, Ive invest a large chunk into the pot." Sure enough .. pocket A's. GOD DAMMIT i was pissed haha

LOL quads Vs quads...Pay it every time if he's got it...Because you'll never see it again

Originally Posted by LucifersGhost

Cool. Thanks man.

Another question .. psychologically speaking, i will assume its normal for a player to call into hands more often when your stack is up and/or higher than the rest of the table. For example, normally when starting out, i would never call a 10-6 suited. But when i am up a bit (say50 - 75% of my starting amount), i tend to occasionally play those hands to "see what happens" for lack of a better term. That normal? Again, i would say it is but Im not sure.

As for the confidence thing, its that plus a combination of bad luck. The other night, I was in a hand heads up in a $5/$10 game.

Dealt: KK
Flop: K8A
Turn: K
River: A

When the river came out, I thought to myself "As if he has pocket A's. What are the odds? Besides, at this point, Ive invest a large chunk into the pot." Sure enough .. pocket A's. GOD DAMMIT i was pissed haha

If you make quads and don't try and get all your money in the pot, you would prove to yourself that you can not play this game.

Right now you're playing weak/tight. That will probably win you a little money but it's a punchline in the poker community. (I believe the main insult flung around between FTR and twoplustwo was "you're all a bunch of politically correct weak/tighties") You need to try and play fearlessly next session and see how it goes.

You've got to become tight/aggressive, tricky and fearless to win.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Originally Posted by LucifersGhost

Cool. Thanks man.

Another question .. psychologically speaking, i will assume its normal for a player to call into hands more often when your stack is up and/or higher than the rest of the table. For example, normally when starting out, i would never call a 10-6 suited. But when i am up a bit (say50 - 75% of my starting amount), i tend to occasionally play those hands to "see what happens" for lack of a better term. That normal? Again, i would say it is but Im not sure.

As for the confidence thing, its that plus a combination of bad luck. The other night, I was in a hand heads up in a $5/$10 game.

Dealt: KK
Flop: K8A
Turn: K
River: A

When the river came out, I thought to myself "As if he has pocket A's. What are the odds? Besides, at this point, Ive invest a large chunk into the pot." Sure enough .. pocket A's. GOD DAMMIT i was pissed haha

If you make quads and don't try and get all your money in the pot, you would prove to yourself that you can not play this game.

Right now you're playing weak/tight. That will probably win you a little money but it's a punchline in the poker community. (I believe the main insult flung around between FTR and twoplustwo was "you're all a bunch of politically correct weak/tighties") You need to try and play fearlessly next session and see how it goes.

You've got to become tight/aggressive, tricky and fearless to win.

-'rilla

Oh there was no way i wasnt going in with quads. But it just makes me think that if it was an all in, DOH, allll gone haha.

Im not so sure what the distinction between weak vs. tight is, but I would like to think Im playing more tight. Weak sounds like an insult lol. Tight it is.

I think I will take your advice though and play more aggresively, at least a few times. In the last year or so, im probably up about $250 playing around once a month in an average of $2/$4 games. So I *think* im doing ok. But i will try it out.

Thanks for the advice/help/answers. Very much appreciated

LG

For a little explination. Weak/tight is playing tight preflop and only betting monsters post flop. Maybe calling down with top pairish hands and always looking for a reason to fold. ::Balls-less::

Tight/aggressive is playing tight but betting with top pairish hands and better. Always betting until given a reason to stop. Always giving their opponent the opportunity to call thin or fold. ::Ballsy::

-'rilla

I am sadly, not so ballsy. Always been a very passive person

"This is something we shall try to remedy, isnt it?" - Uncle Argyle

This is something you can try to become more ballsy. Deal a hundred total hands out on your table. 9-10 players. This should help you realize what people play when they limp. They are playing absolute crap. Isolate these retards with good healthy preflop raises and then take em down when you hit.

If this doesnt improve your confidence then try some SNG's. Play absolutely no hands except pocket pairs and the free BB till there's 5 people left. Hit and push. This might help too.

Originally Posted by LucifersGhost

I am sadly, not so ballsy. Always been a very passive person

"This is something we shall try to remedy, isnt it?" - Uncle Argyle

Your opponents play weak hands and you tend to play better hands. From now on, you're going to say to yourself, "My hand is still best until they tell me otherwise." and bet like your hand is still best. Even if JJ has an over flop or AK goes unpaired.

-'rilla