Quote Originally Posted by Geanosssss
I agree w/chopper here.
I think that we use logic and math to find different parts of the question: 'what is the correct play here?'
We combine logic and math to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
No-one should ever agree with chopper here. This is not a problem that any serious or thinking person should get wrong. Chopper's argument changes like 2x10^73 times throughout this thread yet he fails to make a decent point for the following reason.

Mathematics is the absolute key in poker and is the only thing that determines whether or not you win or lose long term. Getting the mathematics right is basically the topic of this forum, and the reason that 90% of us are not making an absolute shit load is that we are not quite getting it right yet. That's ok. Our bad.

Ignoring the mathematics is absolutely dumb and advocating it, completely horrendous. THERE ARE NO SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THE MATHS IS WRONG. IT IS ONLY EVER YOU THAT IS WRONG. Maybe you are wrong with the maths or estimated the terms in your equations wrong. Thats why we are not perfect. Thats why we post on these forums.

Anyone ever questioning the validity of the mathematics of poker is uneducated and I will correct them. Anyone continuing to raise objections will be flamed and if necessary proved wrong. The whole world has been built on mathematics and poker obeys the same laws. You can't change them, so quit trying and concentrate on improving. Chopper is wrong here. End of story.