Ok Im not really sure why you arent getting this yet. I think it has something to do with you not really understanding the whole comparing pot odds Vs equity thing when deciding whether to call or fold.


For example you say

Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
would you agree there are some situations where your "common sense" tells you that you are beat, but the math says you can call?

if so, you used logic against the math.
Yes I agree that there are some situations where for one reason or another you feel that you are probably beat but the maths says you can call. But you are wrong to say you used logic against the math.

I feel I have a 10% chance that I am ahead. Common sense is telling me I am probably beaten. I have to call $1 into a $100 pot. The math says I call. THIS ISNT ILLOGICAL! I havnt used logic against math. Ive used logic and math to come to the correct decision.

Mathematically my EV is positive for the call. Logically I want to make money over the long run and if I make this call a million times I will be a rich man.

If instead there is a 10% chance I am ahead and I have to call half pot I fold just like logic and math tell me to do.


Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
There are a few occasions where your "logic" will overrule the math in a decision...because of your read of a situation/villain...making you fold when the math says you should call/bet.
No! No there aren't. Like you said yourself you use your logic to put him on a range and then you plug it into some math equation along with every other piece of information you have and you come to ONE decision. There is no way for the "logic decision" and the "math decision" to contradict themselves because you use both logic and maths together to come to one single conclusion.

It sounds more to me like you are talking about situations where you are saying "I think I am 50% to win but he's betting really big so I think I'm more likely to be behind". That isn't logic Vs maths. This is logic Vs wishful thinking. The point is if you have some kind of overriding gut feeling that you are behind, and it has some logical cause (e.g. he checked much quicker than usual, he bet slightly smaller/bigger than usual or whatever) then you should factor that into your logical range and then apply the exact same maths to it. There is no situation when logic and maths give you different results unless for some reason you logically put him on a range and then put a different range into your maths.

Perhaps you should give an example because I really dont think you are understanding what we mean by logic. In any case you probably apply it well enough at the tables so I'm guessing this whole discussion is just semantics.