Just Realized How BAD 10NL Players Are...

No cheese and wine, just WTF. I am now taking on the Negreanu mindset in which every player is a donkey until proven otherwise. The cowboys have been killing me lately too.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($1.85)
Hero (UTG+1) ($10.35)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($2.45)
CO ($9.95)
Button ($10)
SB ($4.50)
BB ($8.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, K
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.45, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.10) 8, 10, 4 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, 2 folds, SB calls $2

Turn: ($6.10) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2 (All-In)

River: ($10.10) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $10.10 | Rake: $0.45

Results:
SB had 6, 6 (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero mucked K, K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: SB won $9.65

Standard, imo.

The know that you only can has pair on flop 1/3 of the time, so 66 is good over 2/3rds of the time by river.

How is this standard? WTF is he calling the turn with here? I don't even understand the call on the flop. Why not shove his other 20BB in right there? I'm trying to get inside the head of a fish here and understand WTF they're thinking.

Fishes thought proces.

Pre-flop, I has a pair, I call. I'll hit a set and stack this mother

Flop, Normally a raise is ace big. that's like aceking, acequeen and acejack, I'm probably ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

Turn, well the queen came, and it looks like I only have two bucks left to commit to win 10, there's a small chance I'm ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

River. I hit my set... and I stacked this tard. lol he's so bad.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Fishes thought proces.

Pre-flop, I has a pair, I call. I'll hit a set and stack this mother

Flop, Normally a raise is ace big. that's like aceking, acequeen and acejack, I'm probably ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

Turn, well the queen came, and it looks like I only have two bucks left to commit to win 10, there's a small chance I'm ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

River. I hit my set... and I stacked this tard. lol he's so bad.

Ok, I lol'd at this 'cause it's so true.

Ragnar4 theorum, ftw.

you will get better when you stop having pet names for your holdings. nobody above $25NL calls them cowboys and has a winrate above 0.

Point taken but it's probably the first time I've referred to KK as cowboys since like, forever. It's just tilt-inducing when I review my hands and I see KK in -$57 at $10NL and only once did I get my money in behind (against AA pre). 5.7 buyins in the negative from one god damn holding in less than 3k hands. Yuck.

Whatever I guess, shit happens.

heeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww

Originally Posted by Airles™

Point taken but it's probably the first time I've referred to KK as cowboys since like, forever. It's just tilt-inducing when I review my hands and I see KK in -$57 at $10NL and only once did I get my money in behind (against AA pre). 5.7 buyins in the negative from one god damn holding in less than 3k hands. Yuck.

Whatever I guess, shit happens.

What do you consider behind? I would be willing to bet that this is probably not the case, but it will happen. KK is not infallible. I would look and see when the last time is you folded KK postflop. Can you remember a time that you did, when the board wasn't a 4 flush or had trips up?

FWIW, it all works out in the wash, KK will win it's share, and this is not where you are going to have your long term losses.

Flop, Normally a raise is ace big. that's like aceking, acequeen and acejack, I'm probably ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

I don't think this part is what a standard fish thinks.

The thought process of a fish on a T84 flop is, "There's nothing there that scares me." There's no, what have I got, what has he got, what does he think i've got, going on here. Rather, his experience has taught him not to be scared of face-card-less flops when holding a pocket pair.

I don't know though, am I wrong in thinking that fish don't concern themselves with the other opponents hands and actions too much?

The, "i've only got $2 left" on the turn bit sounds about right.

Originally Posted by Airles™

Point taken but it's probably the first time I've referred to KK as cowboys since like, forever. It's just tilt-inducing when I review my hands and I see KK in -$57 at $10NL and only once did I get my money in behind (against AA pre). 5.7 buyins in the negative from one god damn holding in less than 3k hands. Yuck.

Whatever I guess, shit happens.

FWIW, I just finished a session down 2BI on Stars. I lost $75 on about 6 different hands with KK and AK with TPTK. KK was crushed by AA twice, and AK just wasn't cooperating on the river. Generally, it happens against villians calling down really light. My immediate reaction is to tighten up, but I know there is waaay to much value to start laying down these kinds of hands against crazy players. It just sucks when you hit a bad streak. Keep playing them strong, and you'll make up your losses before too long.

i've gone through a 90+ dollar negative swing in one day because of shit like that lol... can't do much about it but keep playing really...

as long as i know i was ahead when the money went in i don't really care but that day i had that huge swing i had to go to the play money tables and donk it up a bit lol

Originally Posted by jyms

What do you consider behind? I would be willing to bet that this is probably not the case, but it will happen. KK is not infallible. I would look and see when the last time is you folded KK postflop. Can you remember a time that you did, when the board wasn't a 4 flush or had trips up?

FWIW, it all works out in the wash, KK will win it's share, and this is not where you are going to have your long term losses.

I folded it once on a rainbow flop when my cbet got re-popped big from an UTG limp/caller. And I caught some flack here for that hand. I've also folded to turn aggression OOP on an A-high flop. I'm looking through the KK hands now and not one of them lost to a straight, flush, or a paired board (trips). Trust me, I've replayed these hands a few times to find something that I'm doing wrong but I really can't. I'm sure it will even out over time but that's some sick shit. It's all been exactly like the hand posted above. If you can find something wrong with the way I played that hand, please feel free to point it out.

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Fishes thought proces.

Pre-flop, I has a pair, I call. I'll hit a set and stack this mother

Flop, Normally a raise is ace big. that's like aceking, acequeen and acejack, I'm probably ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

Turn, well the queen came, and it looks like I only have two bucks left to commit to win 10, there's a small chance I'm ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

River. I hit my set... and I stacked this tard. lol he's so bad.

Ok, I lol'd at this 'cause it's so true.

Ragnar4 theorum, ftw.

This is a longer version of the first response.

I.e., Illfavor theorem.


Airles, I said the hand was standard you your were like "how is this standard!?!?" and now you're like "if you can find a way I played it bad, etc." It's called variance. My stats with QQ over a 30K hand stretch were much worse than yours. Dis is da pokerz.

Yeah, I got it. I'm on life tilt and all hopped up on cinnamon swirls.

Originally Posted by jyms

you will get better when you stop having pet names for your holdings. nobody above $25NL calls them cowboys and has a winrate above 0.

I'm a winning player at NL50 and I call them ace magnets

I have names for hands you've never imagined being name-worthy.

K7o = tupair
J5 = motown
J4 = minus micheal
95 = dolly parton
94 = breast reduction
88 = pocket set
8c5c = wop killer

Hell, in the regular games I play, we even name bet sizes.

about the actual topic: Just Realized How BAD 10NL Players Are...
I just realized how bad 100nl, 200nl, 400nl, and 600nl players are. I swear to you, when you move up, you will repeat yourself when you see that donks are still donks at EVERY level.

Originally Posted by jyms

you will get better when you stop having pet names for your holdings. nobody above $25NL calls them cowboys and has a winrate above 0.

This, and it is spelled 'kowboys' imo.


Also, don't worry. When you move to 25nl there will still be horrible players.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?3859954

Originally Posted by jyms

you will get better when you stop having pet names for your holdings. nobody above $25NL calls them cowboys and has a winrate above 0.

what's wrong with fish-hooks? or pocket rockets

AJ = back to the car
75o = god (what people say when you show it down)
74o = jesus (same)
Q3 = the gay waiter (the lamest name ever, but a floor at foxwoods came up with it, so everyone there knows it)

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Fishes thought proces.

Pre-flop, I has a pair, I call. I'll hit a set and stack this mother

Flop, Normally a raise is ace big. that's like aceking, acequeen and acejack, I'm probably ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

Turn, well the queen came, and it looks like I only have two bucks left to commit to win 10, there's a small chance I'm ahead, and maybe I'll hit a set and stack this mother.

River. I hit my set... and I stacked this tard. lol he's so bad.

Actually probably pretty close... on a 10 high flop he might have thought he was good here.. and by that time is getting like 5-1.. his turn call is really easy even though the queen is a scarecard. Overall he didn't play it as bad as you think he did... he got lucky, you got unlucky.. this shit happens a lot, get used to it... you had like 90%+ equity heads up with him though, so don't let it bother you.

I've had two 90+ downswings at 10NL, by the way.. it happens. Once the negative variance goes away for a session or two, your BR will fly up.

Originally Posted by dev

about the actual topic: Just Realized How BAD 10NL Players Are...
I just realized how bad 100nl, 200nl, 400nl, and 600nl players are. I swear to you, when you move up, you will repeat yourself when you see that donks are still donks at EVERY level.

So it was you who finally busted Otter then?

Originally Posted by dev

Q3 = the gay waiter

lol'd

This hand is very indicative of how bad players think.

They fail to assign an appropriate range on you, and usually just assumes AK, AQ after a pf raise. I they have a pair they "trap you".

This implies that we should be a bit wary of C-betting dry boards with AK, AQ, AJ type of hands. It also shows that we can get a lot of value out of big pairs- 99+.

The worst player I have ever met was in a LIMIT game. He pushed the raise button 100 % of the time for an hour straight. I lost some money to him...

Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

The worst player I have ever met.... I lost some money to him...

You too huh? Damn fish. Of course I am a fish. I'm kind of like a carp or catfish bottom feeding on neutral.

Originally Posted by Airles™

How is this standard? WTF is he calling the turn with here? I don't even understand the call on the flop. Why not shove his other 20BB in right there? I'm trying to get inside the head of a fish here and understand WTF they're thinking.

Fish had pair which beats whiffed overs, and backdoor gutshot+2 outs to set is considered by most fishes as "combo draw". No, really.

The first mistake is assuming they are thinking. If they are thinking, their approach to poker strategy is so ridiculous and irrational, that you really don't want to try to understand it.

move up to where they respect your raises

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

move up to where they respect your raises

Yeah, maybe...







































Yeah well, probably not.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I've had two 90+ downswings at 10NL, by the way.. it happens. Once the negative variance goes away for a session or two, your BR will fly up.

Wow, you must really suck. I cruised through 10NL in no time!

Of course, I had a 13BI downswing at 5NL and a 16BI downswing at 20NL (including $260 in one weekend). But they're obviously much tougher stakes than 10NL ...