JJ in SB... what to do.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

By calling pre, are we simply playing for set value or hoping to get a cheap showdown?

Well, not necessarily either. By calling, we accomplish a few things:

1. We don't turn our hand into a bluff because IMO (and this is huge that it's just MY opinion and better reads could definitely change this) he won't continue if we 3bet unless he has QQ+/AK SOMETIMES JJ and rarely TT. I play more tightly until I have a better read he'll be flatting with more than those hands.

2. It strengthens our flat calling range. This is the part where it doesn't necessarily mean we need a cheap showdown. By shoring up our preflop calling range, we are able to play a bigger pot postflop because we now have a stronger hand compared to our perceived weak range. Do you get that? I feel like I can't explain that well.


Also, I wouldn't donk this turn and him raising is a clear fold because the turn hit our range pretty well and he doesn't care (full houses/quads/Tx/QQ+...but mainly full houses/quads/Tx).

However, I think donking this turn is not something Tom would actually do for value and I personally would raise this a lot as a bluff. I don't think most 10NLers would do that though.

Originally Posted by kmind

1. We don't turn our hand into a bluff because IMO (and this is huge that it's just MY opinion and better reads could definitely change this) he won't continue if we 3bet unless he has QQ+/AK SOMETIMES JJ and rarely TT. I play more tightly until I have a better read he'll be flatting with more than those hands.

I guess this is where I disagree, and also how I justify 3betting. I think 3bets are called far, far wider than this at 5nl.

I would include something along the lines of:

100% of the time: AK+, JJ+
50% of the time: AQ, KQs, 77-TT.
30% of the time: KQ
10% of the time I'd even throw in 89s-QJs

Maybe I'm well out with this, but I've had 3bets called by all kinds of crap. If I get the time I'd like to trawl through HM and get some stats, as the above is just off the top of my head and could be miles out, but time etc.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

I guess this is where I disagree, and also how I justify 3betting. I think 3bets are called far, far wider than this at 5nl.

I would include something along the lines of:

100% of the time: AK+, JJ+
50% of the time: AQ, KQs, 77-TT.
30% of the time: KQ
10% of the time I'd even throw in 89s-QJs

Maybe I'm well out with this, but I've had 3bets called by all kinds of crap. If I get the time I'd like to trawl through HM and get some stats, as the above is just off the top of my head and could be miles out, but time etc.

Wow I really want to see some stats to back this, and besides you're totally forgetting/leaving out factors such as 3bet sizing, previous history, etc.