It was time to regroup..

So, I really fely my poker game was going the wrong way, much too chaotic, no clear overview in my head anymore. This also coincided with me needing some money, so I decided to basically start again. Back to basics.

I cashed out my BR so that I had $95 left, and moved back down to 10NL. Also, I basically looked at what worked in the times past, and I think I pretty much made the realization every poker player is bound to make one time or the other: The profitable way to play poker is not trying to wurm value out of every hand, or trying to use brilliant tricks.. it's simply having a "system" and playing by it all the time. Not really caring what happens, good hands, bad hands, good flops, bad flops.. simply doing right thing over and over again.

So yeah, I have now "started again", grinding it out at 2-table 6max 10NL ring. Just trying to stick to my system.. it feels a bit like playing for pennies with idiots.. which it probably is, but I think it's good. Calmly doing your thing, without getting too attached.

Originally Posted by jackvance

The profitable way to play poker is not trying to wurm value out of every hand, or trying to use brilliant tricks.. it's simply having a "system" and playing by it all the time.

OMG hey AOK, pelion etc. come look at this..

Sounds awfully familliar jack?

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Sounds awfully familliar jack?

The thing is, you HAVE TO go through the learning phases where you try out all kinds of different shit and see what works and what doesn't, etc.

I don't regret anything. You can't stick to any sort of system without the proper experience and knowledge about it. Hell, I play a month online now (a week more at poker in total), and I was already able to cash out $200 and still have more left than I started with, I can't say I'm displeased on the whole. But most of all, I've made mistakes upon mistakes, and they've added to my knowledge about poker.

So now I start again, for my second month at poker. Only now I know a bit more than when I first started.

if you arent in the red after a month then you are doing better than i did.
Seriously... im not shitting you!

I wish you luck jack.

On thing I will say though is that perhaps you should try to find another way to "regroup" rather than withdrawing. It kills your improvement rate.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

if you arent in the red after a month then you are doing better than i did.
Seriously... im not shitting you!

I hope you mean your first month at poker here and not this month

I wish you luck jack.

Thx Irish

On thing I will say though is that perhaps you should try to find another way to "regroup" rather than withdrawing. It kills your improvement rate.

Yeah I agree, but I really needed money now, and I was planning on going back to 10NL anyway since my poker confidence had hit sub zero level. I just wanna see first that I can stick to my "system" for longer periods of time before I will migrate back to 20NL.

Good idea and luck to you jackvance, I think this is a really good idea if your confidence and bankroll aren't up to your likings.

You're not alone in this feeling either. I've made about a $100 profit for the month of April, and this is quite disheartening. I've lost $500 in the past 2 weeks too. So, my confidence in my game is at an all time low since I started earlier this year. I think it partly has to do with an overconfidence, or cockyness I've developed. It's as if each table I play doesn't have that much of a significance on my roll, so "Who cares if I lose 2% of my roll? hahaha!!"

I need to change this around, so one idea I have is to do what jackvance is doing - Bumping down in a level or two and start over. Maybe I'll be back @ 50NL in less than a week? I think this is perfectly normal, and actually takes a lot of dicipline.

Good luck Jack - whatever I may disgaree with about your posts here, you have a passion for learning that every single poster here should admire.

Is it rude to ask what hit your confidence so badly? Especially as you were getting sick of the lower limits last tiem I read your posts.

Goodluck Jack. Im pretty sure everyone does it, and you seem to be on the right road. Its just the newbie circle of death....except you didnt go bust.
From your posts you sound very enthusiastic so there really should be nothing stopping you from.....


..... sorry i cant help it. Told you so hehe

...... Anyways, I have a feeling you could be very good at this one day if you apply yourself as much as you sound like you have been up till now. A very important part of that is listening to people who probably know more than you. Whatever you do, dont start blindly following, but always listen.

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

I think it partly has to do with an overconfidence, or cockyness I've developed.

A frequent problem of mine aswell. I've mentionned it before.. adversity brings out the best out in me. When things go well.. ugh.. the overconfidence kicks in and tons of money ends up wasted.

Good luck Jack - whatever I may disgaree with about your posts here, you have a passion for learning that every single poster here should admire.

Thx man. Quite unexpected

Is it rude to ask what hit your confidence so badly? Especially as you were getting sick of the lower limits last tiem I read your posts

Yeah that's probably the problem. I see their mistakes etc, and it makes me dull and impatient and want to get in there and take their money asap. Ofcourse that's simply not how poker works. So I took a time-out and realized I actually did better before when I knew less about poker but simply stuck to some sort of "system" I had developed for myself. So I decided to go back to that point and start again.

(plus I needed the money so I didn't have the roll for 20NL anymore, but mostly the first thing)

Goodluck Jack. Im pretty sure everyone does it, and you seem to be on the right road. Its just the newbie circle of death....except you didnt go bust.

Luckily for me, when things go bad, my brain kicks into gear pretty quickly to figure out what's wrong

Hey Jackvance, I'd like to thank you for this post.

It's been EXTREMELY timely for me. I've just finished a session where I was attempting to regroup and was playing like days of yore. Unfortunately, this morning I actually lost to a bad beat suck-out and that made me really stop and think.

In 4 days I've dropped about 100 bucks. My foray up to $25 started well, but then, when the cards stopped coming, I started to change my game. To diverge from the tried and true. That lead to more frustration and two or three stupid calls and all-ins which, at the higher limits, certainly do divest you of your cash relatively quickly.

But this last loss was the turning point. I was eminiently pissed at myself, at the moron who called against reason, and I was/am depressed about my future plans as a poker player.

However, reading this post helped me get back to a reasonable state of mind.

I said I was dropping back a day ago, but I still played a couple 25 buck tables last night and this morning. Now, I'm fully back to 10 dollar as well, starting this evening, until I get my game back on line and bet my bankroll back up to $550.

It sucks, really, but that's how it is. Why do I never learn? Moron!

Originally Posted by Jiggus

Hey Jackvance, I'd like to thank you for this post.

np, just sharing my thoughts as usual

I said I was dropping back a day ago, but I still played a couple 25 buck tables last night and this morning. Now, I'm fully back to 10 dollar as well, starting this evening, until I get my game back on line and bet my bankroll back up to $550.

For me, it was the sheer feeling my game has digressed from what it used to be so damn much. I had totally lost the oversight I used to have. Everything was a blur.. what hands to play, how to bet.. I had no clear idea anymore. This guy raises me, what does it mean? No clue anymore. And I remembered in the past I did have a good sense of what to do, and how to interpret my opp's plays. It's really great when things go well, but how you deal with times going bad is imho the real key to success in poker.

I hope that after your "regroup" it goes well for you, as it seems to have gone for me now. Ofcourse you can never tell what'll happen in the future, but I've already regained most of my confidence (and my BR) and moved back up to 20NL. Should I feel I'm losing it again.. I'll move back down again, no questions asked.

Originally Posted by jackvance

It's really great when things go well, but how you deal with times going bad is imho the real key to success in poker.

Your most astute point yet at FTR.

Jack,remember me talking about the FLEMISH circle of death early on in your FTR'dom?

LOL

Don't worry though, we have a cardsman circle of death too

Originally Posted by chardrian

Your most astute point yet at FTR.

Why thank you. (I think..)

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Jack,remember me talking about the FLEMISH circle of death early on in your FTR'dom?

Heh.. I do remember something like that yes.. I atleast remember I was confused there, I mean, how do you know I'm flemish, did I mention it somewhere?..

I'm that good LOL

No, really, I just knew you were from Belgium from one of your posts. Took a shot at Flemish. 50/50 isn't it?

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

I'm that good LOL

No, really, I just knew you were from Belgium from one of your posts. Took a shot at Flemish. 50/50 isn't it?

Aaaah Yeah something like 50/50. You flemish too? Or France/Holland/Germany/Brittain?

Nope, American....

From around Indianapolis, Indiana (where they have the big race)....

Jack, serious comment - it's really time you quit unibet for a site that offers fishier players, rakeback, bonuses, or all of the above. If you want to play Prima, there are a couple of sites that offer 30%+ rakeback and have $20 tables; if you're happy to move to $25NL the world is, quite literally, your oyster.

If you'd ever like to discuss this further, or be referred, PM me!

Originally Posted by jackvance

So yeah, I have now "started again", grinding it out at 2-table 6max 10NL ring. Just trying to stick to my system.. it feels a bit like playing for pennies with idiots.. which it probably is, but I think it's good. Calmly doing your thing, without getting too attached.

I would bet we have all gone through what you're going through. I know I have (and will continue). Started out losing and sometimes breakeven for the first 4 months, then found FTR and became profitable ($200 to $800 in month 5). Then hit a "down" streak for month 6 where I was breakeven ONLY for 5K hands. Like you, I couldn't figure out what to play or when or where. Then I went back to what worked before .... GRINDING IT OUT.

Moved up to 50NL ... uh oh ... 4 buyins gone in one session. Back to 25NL. Uh oh, down another 6 buyins for month 7. Ah ... KEEP GRINDING. Now I have gone from $300 to $800 in month 8. Got a system, tweak it now and again, but basically I have learned as you have pointed out, that poker is a long term grind and I just can't wish a winning hand.

I also learned that I will sometimes lose to a better hand. That may sound strange but I believed I could outplay most people at my stakes. I learned to ignore the bad beats, not to get too cute by trying to "trick" other players, and to laydown hands when beat (still a MAJOR leak for me). But more importantly, I have learned to play my game, bet or raise when I should, and then ACCEPT when I get beat (like last night when I flop a boat with my pocket 8s and take a big pot ... only to lose to the same amount when the OTHER GUY FLOPS A BOAT with his pocket 5s). As many here have said, when beat by a better hand that you played well, you just pay them off, say NH, and move to the next one.

So kudos to you for playing through the down side and coming back stronger. I think I have.

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Nope, American....

From around Indianapolis, Indiana (where they have the big race)....

Ah ok, not used to Americans knowing anything about Belgium


@biondino: yeah I'm working on it.. but getting the funds withdrawn and then getting it to neteller sadly takes quite a while. My unibet roll is now at $270 so I'm thinking about cashing out $120 for neteller - and as such other sites with rakeback, bonusses and more fish - and moving back down to 10NL on unibet til I get $200 again for 20NL. My plan is also to go casino.net first, would that be a good idea you think?

Originally Posted by KingLizard

That may sound strange but I believed I could outplay most people at my stakes.

Oooh that does not sound strange at all, trust me

But more importantly, I have learned to play my game, bet or raise when I should, and then ACCEPT when I get beat (like last night when I flop a boat with my pocket 8s and take a big pot ... only to lose to the same amount when the OTHER GUY FLOPS A BOAT with his pocket 5s). As many here have said, when beat by a better hand that you played well, you just pay them off, say NH, and move to the next one.

Yeah, putting your winnings in perspective is crucial. If, like I have so often, you take those for granted, you're just setting yourself up for frustrations on your losses. Thinking "ok I took his money but he called all-in with a flush draw so I'm expected to bust out here once every third time" works miracles on not freaking out when you do run into a bad beat.. as opposed to thinking "haha another donk handing me his money, keep em coming!" - here a future bad beat will likely hit you hard, mentally.

But I have to say though, it feels like I'm turboing through all the phases a bit. I mean, you talk about this month this happened and that month that happened.. for me these phases have generally taken a few days. I'm only at online poker a month and a week. I also haven't really been hit HARD by downswings.. I moved down on a $95 roll, but not because I had lost it all, but rather because I felt my game had gone the drain, so I cashed out $200 and THIS brought me down to $95. Ofcourse in my lost moments I had plummeted down from $370 to $295, but I think I will still have my own demons to face in case I get hit *really* hard. So far I've been able to catch the downward spirals in my game relatively quickly, this is good, but to be honest I'm still not too confident I have any sort of long-term stability yet.

So yeah, I moved down when I felt it was necessary, but I don't think I can take too much credit for that.. not sure what'll happen if I hit LONG downswings or dry spells, as this hasn't really happened yet so far.

Or maybe I'm just in a pessimistic mood now, dunno :P