The INVINCIBLE chip leader

Every time i need to double up at a SNG and i go all in, the chip leader follows me while everyone else folds. I always go all in with a monster hand and he usually goes in with a shit hand.

100% of the time, and i mean 100% of the time he wins.

Anyone else get this???

Well, It should be accepted that it is not 100% of the time, unless of coarse your sample size is like 3 hands. The fact is over the coarse of time, this will not be the case. It simply cannot be. It certainly can feel like such especially after a few bad beats, but It's a good thing really, It means you went all in with a better hand and they "sucked out". Part of poker, Part of life.

Originally Posted by wonderland

Every time i need to double up at a SNG and i go all in, the chip leader follows me while everyone else folds. I always go all in with a monster hand and he usually goes in with a shit hand.

100% of the time, and i mean 100% of the time he wins.

Anyone else get this???

no, and neither do you

of coarse i do

Hmm, this is remarkable similar to another thread, "Loosing player syndrome" or something like that... Original Post and Replies alike. It's just how it goes sometimes man, no big deal. I do however have to question what your calling a monster preflop.

Quit whining about it or else you won't get anymore help here. I already went out of my trying to help in the other thread and yet you start another thread whining about the same topic. I told you to post up a trimmed SNG for review and I have yet to see one up. So, unless I'm missing the thread, you haven't taken the correct steps to getting better, instead you just want to blame it on bad luck once again. Also I venture to say you haven't downloaded SNGWizard yet either have you?

I was at the final table in a MTT of about 300 entries, and the chip leader was invincible. He was getting his money in bad constantly and winning every showdown.

Did I fold my AK when he raised my blind? No I shoved & laughed when his T9o failed to hit.

A lucky streak is only 'real' in retrospect. It has no bearing on what happens in any given hand.

Poker's just about getting your money in good and hoping for the best which is why it's a stupid game for losers that I hate and stuff

ah the wonderful world of the FTR forum. Do poker players by default have to be edgey or something?

The last thread was about general bad luck and i got a lot out of it. I can't apply it yet because i've decided to wait until i get an income. Trust me i'll start to incur damage bills on top of poker losses with my rage. But don't worry, all that advice will be put to use.

I looked into SNG wiz and to be honest, the video walk through lost me. The maths side of things is going to be a big hurdle for me to get over but if and when i take things that seriously, i'll have to just do it.

but...

THIS thread was specifically about the phenomena of the chip cunt always winning. I posted in the beginniers circle so all the narky experts could not rag on me and tell me to 'stop whining' like the unsupportive pricks that they are. Online poker world is made up of 'em.

I JUST wanted to hear from anyone else who experienced this to get a sense that it's common.

Play nice people.

I can respect that, however you are looking at the situation all wrong. For one a big stack can make looser calls as the amount going in represents a much smaller % of his stack. Two you keep talking about fish calling with crap rags and sucking out. First of all, this is a good thing. When you get all in as a favorite, you just made money, plain and simple. Although you may lose that time or many times right after it, over the long run you win! Another thing, given your limited knowledge of ICM and SNG play there will be spots in a SNG when calling with any two cards is correct. Namely because of the odds you have to win and the pot odds you are getting.

Just realize that you really don't get much sympathy here. If you want to learn then this is the place. But coming here to ask other "beginners" if they notice how the bigstack always wins (which he doesn't), isn't a good idea. Mainly because beginner's don't give the best advice (and I'm included here so watch out). Also because most players on this forum plays poker everyday, and everyday there is a suckout, so to come on here and see thread after thread of people saying poker is rigged and suckouts always happen gets old.

[quote="wonderland"]Every time i need to double up at a SNG and i go all in, the chip leader follows me while everyone else folds. I always go all in with a monster hand and he usually goes in with a shit hand.

100% of the time, and i mean 100% of the time he wins.

Anyone else get this???[/quote

Ok, let me take a slightly different approach than the others.

If you got your money in good, you got it in good. Suck-out happens, but put yourself in the chip leaders shoes... and the little stack shoves, even though you have a marginal hand, is it possible to knock them out right now? Then you shove.

Ok, so now that you know the other side... would you have reacted the same?

In a SNG, knocking out players is the name of the game... and if they give it their worst or best shot and it works... well, sadly that is the point. I'd keep getting the chips in when they are good and you'll com eout ahead in the end.

cheers guys,

Yeah i've been thinking that. I need to get ahead before hand. I often notice one person gets out ahead and sometimes they just don't come down.

Funny, i watched a tiny tiny stack go all in about 4 times against the dominant chip leader today and he won all of them. Lost in the end but the guy would not shove until he was down to like 150 chips.

I hear both your points. My biggest learning of late is to get things as close to one on one as you can (unless you have hit the nuts of the flop and want people in of course) because i used to limp at 9 handed tables and wonder how anyone could win.

That said, i still fear committing a lot of chips incase someone gets nasty with me. So that's my currently concern. I only go into a pot if i can go in strong but that means putting a fair bit on the line.

Oh and i've also learned that if you're a bit unsure of your hand and you raise on the flop, you can see get a check on the turn and see a free card. Sometimes the river too.

Originally Posted by wonderland

ah the wonderful world of the FTR forum. Do poker players by default have to be edgey or something?

>No. Well, yes. Sometimes.
The last thread was about general bad luck and i got a lot out of it. I can't apply it yet because i've decided to wait until i get an income. Trust me i'll start to incur damage bills on top of poker losses with my rage. But don't worry, all that advice will be put to use.

I looked into SNG wiz and to be honest, the video walk through lost me. The maths side of things is going to be a big hurdle for me to get over but if and when i take things that seriously, i'll have to just do it.

but...

THIS thread was specifically about the phenomena of the chip cunt < interesting slip of the tungue. lol. always winning. I posted in the beginniers circle so all the narky experts could not rag on me and tell me to 'stop whining' like the unsupportive pricks that they are. Online poker world is made up of 'em.

I JUST wanted to hear from anyone else who experienced this to get a sense that it's common.
>It's not. In fact it's downright impossible, but that has already been established. To make that point of view seem ok, or accepted, would be rediculous. That would only perpetuate the idea. Something to be learned quickly here might be that there is no reason to take offense at anything. Aggression doesn't mean the seniors around here are "Pricks" as you so eliquently put, it means that they don't want to here about bad beats outside of the appropriate forum, because they can, I assure you, tell you worse ones.

Just remember man, nobody is against you. Nobody has a reason to be.

Play nice people.

LOL DOOMSWITCH

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

Aggression doesn't mean the seniors around here are "Pricks" as you so eliquently put, it means that they don't want to here about bad beats outside of the appropriate forum, because they can, I assure you, tell you worse ones.

Just remember man, nobody is against you. Nobody has a reason to be

Well put. That's what I was trying to get across. Regulars go through bad beats on a daily basis, and their beats are generally worth more than the new players that come here to tell theirs. We do have a forum for bad beats, but honestly, I stress not getting in a habit of going there to vent. When playing poker you need to become as close to emotionless while at the tables. If you begin to think for a second that you will lose if you make a call even if you ahead, you may not make the call and be making a mistake. A +ev call is a +ev call, and it is ALWAYS correct (barring a situation when another move is more correct). Avoiding a the most +ev action, is a mistake. If you do it out of superstitious, scared money, or whatever, then you aren't playing your best poker and are tilting, and as we know, that loses money!

Wonderland, here are a few links I suggest you look through. I think it will do alot of your understanding of how SNGs work.

SNG tactics - I actually suggest reading every single post in here, if you haven't already.

SNG FAQ - Nice post here as well. Worth a read.

Taipan68 $27 SNG - Taipan68 is the mod in the SNG Forum and is very solid. I remember looking at this SNG and taking in how he played back when I started playing SNGs and this helped alot.
*To understand the trimmed tourney structure look here at the bottom under the Readme section*

BJsaust SNG video - very good video. Give this a watch for sure, so you can begin to understand how SNGs are really played.

The one thing I think you are confusing a little is SNG and MTT play. I don't know much about MTTs but I believe the emphasis is on Chip Accumulation because the field is much biggest and the payout structure is harsher. In SNGs you are honestly looking to survive in the beginning stages, on the bubble you can open up because most players tighten up, and once in the money you are looking to take down a win (which doesn't mean tighten up hoping to get HU then win in all instances). So there will be plenty of SNGs where you really won't play a hand till the blinds are 50/100 and then you are either in push/fold mode. And in some of these you will push a hand in a correct spot and lose. It happens. That's why you are advised to have a deep enough BR to sustain playing when this happens.[/url]

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quit whining about it or else you won't get anymore help here. I already went out of my trying to help in the other thread and yet you start another thread whining about the same topic. I told you to post up a trimmed SNG for review and I have yet to see one up. So, unless I'm missing the thread, you haven't taken the correct steps to getting better, instead you just want to blame it on bad luck once again. Also I venture to say you haven't downloaded SNGWizard yet either have you?

excuse me for my ignorance, but what is SNGWizard? I mean, of course, what is it for

Originally Posted by settecba

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quit whining about it or else you won't get anymore help here. I already went out of my trying to help in the other thread and yet you start another thread whining about the same topic. I told you to post up a trimmed SNG for review and I have yet to see one up. So, unless I'm missing the thread, you haven't taken the correct steps to getting better, instead you just want to blame it on bad luck once again. Also I venture to say you haven't downloaded SNGWizard yet either have you?

excuse me for my ignorance, but what is SNGWizard? I mean, of course, what is it for

Could it be SNGs? Naw, that would be too obvious. It must be for something else.

What is probably happening is that you're waiting too long to push, you have only 2M left, the chip leader gets the right odds and has to call. Just a wild guess, because it's happening so often. Consider pushing it in with garbage in position every now and then. That's much better than waiting for a monster when you're the small stack.

Originally Posted by iopq

Could it be SNGs? Naw, that would be too obvious. It must be for something else.

It's funny beause your reply here is ironic. I think it's pretty damn obvious that settecba was asking what the program is used to do, not what type of games it's used for. And so either you are trying to be a jerk, or you lack the reading comprenhension the same way you are suggesting of settecba.

Anyway, the point of my post is that your reply isn't welcome to new people to this forum. No need to be sarcastic, just answer the question next time.

For settecba: http://www.sngwiz.com/

FTR is generally a friendly place for people who strive to be students of the game and learn about it.

Unfortunately, wonderland is (to me at least) coming across as someone who does not begin to understand basic poker concepts, who gives too much weight to the areas of human memory that we all know are highly selective and not at all objective and who is looking for a sympathetic shoulder to cry on about how the world is rigged against him.

I'm sorry, but this is the wrong place for that type of posts, and to be quite frank that type of post deserves to be met with a certain amount of animosity. While a lot of people have been friendly in their answers I haven't chimed in simply because it's not a type of post I want to encourage.

THIS thread was specifically about the phenomena of the chip cunt always winning. I posted in the beginniers circle so all the narky experts could not rag on me and tell me to 'stop whining' like the unsupportive pricks that they are. Online poker world is made up of 'em.

I JUST wanted to hear from anyone else who experienced this to get a sense that it's common.

Play nice people.

There is no such phenomenon. It's all in your head. Trying to establish the phenomenon as fact is as welcome as arguing that pedophilia is good for children. ESPECIALLY beginners do not need their heads filled with this kind of nonsense.

What I find especially irritating about your posts is that the critical errors in your logic are not what you offer up for discussion. They are assumed and presented as true and you very carefully try to lead the discussion in a different direction on the basis that your bullshit can serve as foundation.

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Originally Posted by iopq

Could it be SNGs? Naw, that would be too obvious. It must be for something else.

It's funny beause your reply here is ironic. I think it's pretty damn obvious that settecba was asking what the program is used to do, not what type of games it's used for. And so either you are trying to be a jerk, or you lack the reading comprenhension the same way you are suggesting of settecba.

Anyway, the point of my post is that your reply isn't welcome to new people to this forum. No need to be sarcastic, just answer the question next time.

For settecba: http://www.sngwiz.com/

Pwned...

Settecba: SNGwiz is a program that allows you to analyze your SNG push/fold game, and whether your pushes are +ev, or -ev. So you can take quizes on situations and determine if you are making the right moves, as well as import your SNGs (by using the hand histories), and process it and SNG will tell if all your moves (when <10 bb I believe) were correct. Let it be known that SNG uses general calling/shoving ranges for the players at your table, so it is generally best to change those to what you know about a player. Say if you know a player is extremely tight, then change his calling range accordingly making it very tight.

Originally Posted by iopq

Originally Posted by settecba

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quit whining about it or else you won't get anymore help here. I already went out of my trying to help in the other thread and yet you start another thread whining about the same topic. I told you to post up a trimmed SNG for review and I have yet to see one up. So, unless I'm missing the thread, you haven't taken the correct steps to getting better, instead you just want to blame it on bad luck once again. Also I venture to say you haven't downloaded SNGWizard yet either have you?

excuse me for my ignorance, but what is SNGWizard? I mean, of course, what is it for

Could it be SNGs? Naw, that would be too obvious. It must be for something else.

LOL

Thanks courtiebee and XxStacksxX