I'm really not trying to suck at poker....

....but it sure looks like it.

After my last 20k hands, I'm really getting fed up with myself. I've re-evaluated everything in PokerTracker, and man... I really do not have this game down at all. I pretty much have the bascis, and am pretty good at reads/feel vs ops... but there is so much more for me to improve.

I basically just want to post my last 20k hands here so I can get input. I know what I am doing is not going to work... so I need to change. I already sat down and noticed what I thought were problems, but I really really would appreciate the big dawgs (or anyone for that matter) to tear me apart. I'm not going to get offended.

The biggest flaw I noticed is something I thought I was getting down, position... Well, here are my stats... make me a winnar... or just make me cry. (All 20k hands on pokerstars.. first 10k 25nl.. the last 10k hands have been 50nl)... This is the most suprising fact, as I have been playing the same at 50nl v 25nl... I don't see how the game can be that much harder.

Summary


Top 10


Bottom 10


Position


Detail



Total Graph


50nl Graph


I realize this could be varience at 50nl (My last few sessions have been either horrid or break even).. but overall my game is not so gut. Help.

Incase anyone is interested... here is 25nl compared to 50nl... It seems I have tightened up maybe too much moving to 50nl? But regardless, my position stats are just downright terrible.....

25nl


50nl

it really could just be a period of variance.

Your AK losses are surprising, and the low profitability on the button. Check your AK hands and see how many went to showdown with only a pair. Are you stealing enough in position?

I just went from 25 to 50NL as well, with similar lukewarm results... wanna try the buddy system?

there are some junk hands in your top ten losers - try to fold more of those preflop.

folding 85s 86s, 74s, KJs, J6s preflop will be easy. A8s you just have to make sure to not call raises with it and play only for two pair, trip 8's, or flush.

raise preflop a little more? its always good to be the one in control of the hand

Check out your big loss hands, review each of them, Could you have gotten away from them sooner? NL holdem is about big hands. If you got stacked in 3 hands where you could have gotten away from your hand sooner, this will effect your bb/100 a great deal.

IMHP post flop play is more important than pre flop.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

it really could just be a period of variance.

This is what I was hoping. I think I have been running with some bad luck as of late, but even then, after looking at my stats I could improve.

Originally Posted by LeFou

Your AK losses are surprising, and the low profitability on the button. Check your AK hands and see how many went to showdown with only a pair. Are you stealing enough in position?

I just went from 25 to 50NL as well, with similar lukewarm results... wanna try the buddy system?

AKo pwnz me I guess. I'm looking through my hands as we speak.. I have a 97% vpip with it, and only winning 62%. A few of the loses are TPTK to the mat, but not many... I think I need to work on my cbets with it.

My position stats are the worst I think out of anything. My button profits, as you said, are very weird. I don't think I am paying enough attention to position, although I thought I was. I think I am going to stop playing 8 tables, and play 4 for my next 20k hands, and see what happens. It might be boring as all hell, but I need to tune my game up again.

Buddy system? Like collusion? HELL YES!

Originally Posted by mb2447

there are some junk hands in your top ten losers - try to fold more of those preflop.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

folding 85s 86s, 74s, KJs, J6s preflop will be easy. A8s you just have to make sure to not call raises with it and play only for two pair, trip 8's, or flush.

Originally Posted by Jay67s

Check out your big loss hands, review each of them, Could you have gotten away from them sooner? NL holdem is about big hands. If you got stacked in 3 hands where you could have gotten away from your hand sooner, this will effect your bb/100 a great deal.

IMHP post flop play is more important than pre flop.

I have lost a couple of huge pots with these hands, so I think it is skewed a little. A couple are from in the bb, flopping 2pair, rivering a boat under boat. But I definitely agree, I should fold hands like 85s and 74s.. I tend to limp behind people if they limp, and that obviously isn't doing me well.

I also need to work on my postflop play a lot more... I've haven't even added things like floating, stealing.. etc etc.. And my c/r is hardly ever used on any street.

Originally Posted by fjuanl

raise preflop a little more? its always good to be the one in control of the hand

Yeah this is what I am going to be working on for my next 20k. I am going to cut to 4 tables like I said and hopefully get my game straight. My pfr is so unorganized, it should be smaller from utg, and gradually get bigger towards the button. I think my biggest problem with the button, is if there are 3-4 limpers, I will limp on the button instead of raising to try to take the dead money/control of the hand.

On the bright side, you're a winning player over the last 20,000 I would take Jay67s's advice if you haven't already and take a close look at your thirty or forty biggest losing hands. Bad beats? Great. Crying calls? Not so great. Bluffs? Bad. Especially look at your big losses with AKo and see where you could have found a fold. As for your pre-flop stats, I would start raising more from the CO and Button. Overall I wouldn't worry too much though, it could easily be variance.

Originally Posted by givememyleg

Buddy system? Like collusion? HELL YES!

No I mean we just bounce ideas & HH analysis off each other, silly rabbit

Originally Posted by LeFou

Originally Posted by givememyleg

Buddy system? Like collusion? HELL YES!

No I mean we just bounce ideas & HH analysis off each other, silly rabbit

I always like talking poker.

Got aim?

I bet it's just variance. Keep playing.

However, one thing to keep in mind, and one thing that I need to work on, involves not giving low limit players to much credit. Lately I've noticed that I've been doing things like thinking I have way more fold equity than I actually do. Don't overthink things too much; I guarantee you your opponents aren't thinking too hard.

i have pretty much no experience in these matters so I dont kno how i can contribute to this discussion.
HOwever, doesnt it seem odd to you that you are winning the LEAST amount of money from the button?

how is it that your Raise First in % is less from the button than you are from the CO, or from any other position for that matter?

try playing 6 max and work on ur position playing?
try playing increasing VPIP to work on postflop play?

Don't be afraid to check the flop after raising preflop. Sometimes its just the right play, even heads up. Thats probably where a lot of your chips are going.

C-betting is an overrated play and is very easy to overuse. Just do it enough to instill doubt in your opponents (e.g. to have a flop agg of at least 35-40%). If you don't think they are folding 50% of the time, then don't even bet.

Originally Posted by Rockymv

I bet it's just variance. Keep playing.

However, one thing to keep in mind, and one thing that I need to work on, involves not giving low limit players to much credit. Lately I've noticed that I've been doing things like thinking I have way more fold equity than I actually do. Don't overthink things too much; I guarantee you your opponents aren't thinking too hard.

I find myself overthinking many situations... I remember one hand in particular (probably one of the reasons 86s is such a big loser) when I flopped a pair/fd, turned an oesd, played it too aggressively, and 2 ops took me to the mat with tpwk... They really don't fold

Originally Posted by vqc

i have pretty much no experience in these matters so I dont kno how i can contribute to this discussion.
HOwever, doesnt it seem odd to you that you are winning the LEAST amount of money from the button?

how is it that your Raise First in % is less from the button than you are from the CO, or from any other position for that matter?

try playing 6 max and work on ur position playing?
try playing increasing VPIP to work on postflop play?

That is the stat that grabbed my attention more than anything... Like I said earlier in my post, let's say 3 people limp in various spots, and I'm chillin on the button with a playable, but not too strong hand, I tend to limp behind with them. I think raising here may be the best play..

I have played very little 6max, but I think it is something I am going to start doing. My postflop play is pretty trashy, I started as a SnG player. I think for my next session I am going to play exclusively 6max and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by Renton

Don't be afraid to check the flop after raising preflop. Sometimes its just the right play, even heads up. Thats probably where a lot of your chips are going.

C-betting is an overrated play and is very easy to overuse. Just do it enough to instill doubt in your opponents (e.g. to have a flop agg of at least 35-40%). If you don't think they are folding 50% of the time, then don't even bet.

This is one of my biggest downfalls... esspecially with AK.. I have ~800 hands on a certain player and my read on him is simple, if he raises pf, he always bets 3/4 flop fo r a cbet, and if he whiffed he will check the turn. I have taken away so many pots from him... I don't want to end up becoming predictable like that. Thanks for the advice, I will try to tone down my cbets so I'm not spewing as much..

Thanks everyone for contributing.

If you and LeFou fancy chatting to me, I'm at about the same level I think and I'd really enjoy and appreciate it - my aim is markelby if you'd like to add me. My FR stats are roughly 20/10 so maybe I could help you loosen up a little.

Comments: You are playing too few hands and you're playing them too passively. You say that you're playing 25 and 50 the same but your 50 VP is a huge 5% lower - barely 2/3 of the hands you're playing at 25. Can I ask if this is because you're too nervous of having hands you'd otherwise have limped at 25 - Axs, AJ utg, 67s in MP, 8To in the CO etc. - raised at 50? That's also happened to me - in full ring my $50 stats are about 16% VP instead of 19-20% at £25.

However, even if you are only playing 13-14% at $50, a good 8-9% plus should be being raised - with a 5% VPFR you're controlling too few pots and you'll be losing value to aware players who know you only raise AQ+ and TT+ (with maybe a small allowance fot the button).

Originally Posted by biondino

If you and LeFou fancy chatting to me, I'm at about the same level I think and I'd really enjoy and appreciate it - my aim is markelby if you'd like to add me. My FR stats are roughly 20/10 so maybe I could help you loosen up a little.

Comments: You are playing too few hands and you're playing them too passively. You say that you're playing 25 and 50 the same but your 50 VP is a huge 5% lower - barely 2/3 of the hands you're playing at 25. Can I ask if this is because you're too nervous of having hands you'd otherwise have limped at 25 - Axs, AJ utg, 67s in MP, 8To in the CO etc. - raised at 50? That's also happened to me - in full ring my $50 stats are about 16% VP instead of 19-20% at £25.

However, even if you are only playing 13-14% at $50, a good 8-9% plus should be being raised - with a 5% VPFR you're controlling too few pots and you'll be losing value to aware players who know you only raise AQ+ and TT+ (with maybe a small allowance fot the button).

I just got your PM. I see you provided your aim address here in this post. I'd definitely be willing to discuss poker! My aim is givememyleg.. add me and hit me up sometime.

I'll go through the rest later, but after seeing the tip of the iceberg, you need to raise more hands preflop. You're missing out on a lot of value by raising only 6% of your hands preflop. 16/10-12ish would look much better then 16/6.

Alright this is a bit long, but I had a similar experience recently - my biggest ever downswing last june, but I managed to turn around in july and august to probably my biggest ever upswing. I was doing great in june at first, then figured I'd open more tables, and started 8 tabling. kaboom...went on a downswing and ended up break even for 20k hands that month, kind of like what is going on with you.

So I took time off from playing, and looked at hands that involved big pots and other hands I saved in a big text file as questionable and analyzed how I could play them better, and posted the harder ones here. Besides that, I started single-tabling HU to 5max at only the juiciest table. Having 8 times the time for every decision, more action with the big fishes, and position more (which I learned to use better) let me play better pre and post flop. Of course I'm playing more then 1 table again, but this was a big reason (besides less bad beats and more good cards) for turning from .1 ptbb/100 for those 20k hands in june to 16+ptbb/100 for the last 11k hands at 50 and 100nl in july/august. I know that probably isn't sustainable long term, but my point is that table selectoin, learning stuff from FTR and my hand histories, and thinking more about what I'm doing has been huge.

So I am basically saying what's already posted, to cut down and be more selective on tables, play short handed and steal/build pots pre flop more in position, and work on your entire game from a fresh start and open mind. Take some time to focus on every decision, eg not just auto c-betting or auto raising a draw. Find the fish who love to call overbet/big-pot "bluffs"

A lot of people would be better off posting HH rather than PT stats.

Originally Posted by Lukie

I'll go through the rest later, but after seeing the tip of the iceberg, you need to raise more hands preflop. You're missing out on a lot of value by raising only 6% of your hands preflop. 16/10-12ish would look much better then 16/6.

Never realized how much of a nit I was to be honest... It must be because I was playing 8tables... It isn't a lot for some, I know, but there was always a lot going on for me. 4 tables is a lot more boring, but I do notice I'm losing up a lot...

Originally Posted by benny999

Alright this is a bit long, but I had a similar experience recently - my biggest ever downswing last june, but I managed to turn around in july and august to probably my biggest ever upswing. I was doing great in june at first, then figured I'd open more tables, and started 8 tabling. kaboom...went on a downswing and ended up break even for 20k hands that month, kind of like what is going on with you.

So I took time off from playing, and looked at hands that involved big pots and other hands I saved in a big text file as questionable and analyzed how I could play them better, and posted the harder ones here. Besides that, I started single-tabling HU to 5max at only the juiciest table. Having 8 times the time for every decision, more action with the big fishes, and position more (which I learned to use better) let me play better pre and post flop. Of course I'm playing more then 1 table again, but this was a big reason (besides less bad beats and more good cards) for turning from .1 ptbb/100 for those 20k hands in june to 16+ptbb/100 for the last 11k hands at 50 and 100nl in july/august. I know that probably isn't sustainable long term, but my point is that table selectoin, learning stuff from FTR and my hand histories, and thinking more about what I'm doing has been huge.

So I am basically saying what's already posted, to cut down and be more selective on tables, play short handed and steal/build pots pre flop more in position, and work on your entire game from a fresh start and open mind. Take some time to focus on every decision, eg not just auto c-betting or auto raising a draw. Find the fish who love to call overbet/big-pot "bluffs" :Wink:

That's cool man, I'm glad you could turn it around! I hope it is the same for me... we shall see come September.

I had planned on playing 25k or so hands for the rest of August, but my heatsink just pwned on my PC and I've missed about 5 days... I'm gonna have to work my ass off now!

Although your Agg factors are very similar to mine, your win $ when seeing flop is a lot less. Over my last 25K hands (most of my $50NL career except for test sessions), mine is right at 40%. My initial thought is you need to loosen up slightly and take control more. I would think that 16/10 or 16/12 as Lukie suggests would be a lot better than 16/6. I have been 20.5/10.5. I don't get a huge amount of folds to my PFRs (30%), so I still get action running this stat line. I think you could check-raise more and get some more fold equity, too. I think $50 players give a lot more credence to a check raise than $25 players. I definitely think dropping a couple of tables will help you out too.

Winning % of 67 with AK isn't too far out of line, I think. I am around 74%. Remember it is not a made hand, and don't take it too far. If you get called on a cbet and don't improve on the turn, your AK is not good most of the time.

I have periods of varience like this too. I swing a lot more because of being aggressive. I had two nights where I would be up 4 buyins, than a night where I was down three, then up two, down three, etc. It will work itself out. I am far from being there myself--take heart. You aren't losing!

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I thought these stats might be interesting. I bought this PC in March, so this is (almost) all my hands since then.

(NB about 40% of July hands and 80% of August hands are at 6max; the great majority of the ones before are full ring)

Oh, and the currency should be almost all in £ sterling, so up more like $1500 than $900 - or $2400 if you include bonuses and rakeback < /brag >

Originally Posted by topgogo

!!!

lol.... orly?!?!