I want to get better, darn it. My HHs. Help appreciated.

Y'all...

I just decided to start a thread, since I plan to post quite a few hand histories, and I don't want to clog up the board.

Here's my situation: I'm just not getting the game! I'll start to win, and seemingly be playing well -- but I can never sustain any true win rate.

So, with the help of y'all who know infinitely more than I -- I hope to improve. I just refuse to let this game beat me (in actuality, I think I'm up slightly, but you get what I mean).

Best,
EW

I want to give props and thanks to some folks that have helped me already -- Andy, aok, the writers of nearly all the stickies, etc. I REALLY appreciate your help. This forum trumps any book, IMO, because it's interactive.

Without further ado, I want to post my first hand history. Sorry that I can't convert -- but the hand converter doesn't work with FTP.

Full Tilt Poker Game #580777779: Table Meadows - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:28:23 ET - 2006/04/20
Seat 1: DieselDC ($4.80)
Seat 2: Stayhomdad ($6.55)
Seat 3: tennnesseet ($0.85)
Seat 4: jewels_hot ($1.05)
Seat 5: NoSocksLLC ($9.90)
Seat 6: D Marcus ($3)
Seat 7: Philmore Greene ($11.60)
Seat 8: fishbone420 ($4.50)
Seat 9: Vinny72 ($3.70)
NoSocksLLC posts the small blind of $0.05
D Marcus posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoSocksLLC [6h 6d]
Philmore Greene folds
fishbone420 calls $0.10
Vinny72 folds
DieselDC folds
Stayhomdad raises to $0.30
tennnesseet folds
jewels_hot folds
NoSocksLLC calls $0.25
D Marcus folds
fishbone420 calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [9s Kh 6s]
NoSocksLLC checks
fishbone420 bets $0.20
Stayhomdad calls $0.20
NoSocksLLC raises to $0.40
fishbone420 calls $0.20
Stayhomdad calls $0.20
*** TURN *** [9s Kh 6s] [Ad]
NoSocksLLC bets $0.85
fishbone420 folds
Stayhomdad calls $0.85
*** RIVER *** [9s Kh 6s Ad] [2d]
NoSocksLLC checks
Stayhomdad bets $1
NoSocksLLC raises to $5
Stayhomdad calls $4, and is all in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NoSocksLLC shows [6h 6d] (three of a kind, Sixes)
Stayhomdad shows [Ah Qs] (a pair of Aces)
NoSocksLLC wins the pot ($12.55) with three of a kind, Sixes
Stayhomdad: nice play
Stayhomdad is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $13.90 | Rake $1.35
Board: [9s Kh 6s Ad 2d]
Seat 1: DieselDC didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Stayhomdad showed [Ah Qs] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: tennnesseet didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: jewels_hot (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: NoSocksLLC(small blind) showed [6h 6d] and won ($12.55) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 6: D Marcus (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Philmore Greene didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: fishbone420 folded on the Turn
Seat 9: Vinny72 didn't bet (folded)


Since, thus far, the vast majority of my profit has come from set hunting, I want to make sure I'm playing these properly. Obviously, this one worked out just fine -- but, as many here say, it's just foolish to be results oriented.

Would like your opinion on how I played this hand. Thanks!

Best,
EW

ya got all you could on that one.

minraising is definately not good. Basically you make your opponents pay 20 cents more which is totally not in relation to the pot. You are telling everyone you think you have the best hand, but not making em pay for it in the process. Pretty cool that they coughed up the dough anyway but in general not so good methinks.

minraises suck.

You gave great odds for either a flush draw or a str8 draw (78) to catch on u.

I actually like just betting out on that flop. Your play makes what no one would put you on (a beautiful hidden set), more obvious.

Looks to me like you underbet the turn as well.

The river was fine IF you knew your opp would bet. Otherwise against a good opp - you would have missed value there too.

Okay...I guess at this level, the minraise would pretty much just get money out of them in a fashion that would be very unlikely to affect their play later. Bad logic? Or something that would possibly work at $10NL -- but never at a better table?

Basically, I kind of feel I got lucky that neither the flush or straight draws really came to fruition -- and I had someone that was willing to piss their $ away. That's why I posted the hand, even though it "went" well.

I think one of my main problems is I try to be too sneaky. I seem to get drawn out on quite a bit, and it's most likely because I LET PEOPLE STAY AROUND. I did it here, and it's probably something that I should stop.

So, in a situation where you flop a set -- and there's really no overcards or draws -- what do you do? Check and hope that someone gives you value? Or just bet out, and hope for someone to call with a hand that they limped?

For example:
Say I have 66. I limp it to 3-4 players, and the board comes 269 rainbow. There's really not much happening there -- so how do you extract value?

Thanks for all your help!

Best,
EW

Remember with 3-4 players at low limits, you are going to have lots of guys who will call a relatively low flop bet to try and hit one of their overcards later.

Sets with low pairs are nice becuase no one ever puts you on them. The only way to "extract value" is to juice the pot - getting "sneaky" by checking flops and then betting/checkraising the turn or river will work occasionally, and it makes you feel like you are slowplaying like a pro. But if you have 3-4 opps, bet the flop. Juice the pot - they have chased every other pot right? Why would they stop now? If they do fold - oh well, it just didn't work this time... but it will the majority of the time.

If you really feel the need to feign weakness. The best time to do so is on the turn after your flop bet has been called and you are OOP. This line of betting the flop and checking the turn will look like you were just making a continuation bet on the flop but now have nothing and most aggressive players will now try and steal what is now a "big" pot away from you.

And btw - a rainbow flop of 269 with 66 is much scarier than a flop of 26J+.

If the table calls a lot, bet out, if they're all scared folders, slowplay the flop and start hammering from the turn on.

Full Tilt Poker Game #580841717: Table Civic Center - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:08:29 ET - 2006/04/20
Seat 1: Wilson72 ($11.35)
Seat 2: Otter1 ($4)
Seat 3: RSWANN ($3.65)
Seat 4: wildderr ($10.95)
Seat 5: cathcath ($6.75)
Seat 6: Imbluffingagain ($8.45)
Seat 7: NoSocksLLC ($10.10)
Seat 8: Big Ben Surgeon ($3.85)
Seat 9: superTKE ($11)
RSWANN posts the small blind of $0.05
superTKE: nh
wildderr posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoSocksLLC [Jc Jd]
cathcath folds
Imbluffingagain folds
Wilson72: ty
NoSocksLLC raises to $0.50
Big Ben Surgeon folds
superTKE folds
Wilson72 folds
Otter1 calls $0.50
cathcath stands up
RSWANN calls $0.45
wildderr calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [5d Ts 9d]
RSWANN bets $0.80
wildderr folds
RiddleMeDis adds $10
NoSocksLLC raises to $2.50
Otter1 folds
RSWANN calls $1.70
*** TURN *** [5d Ts 9d] [Kd]
RSWANN checks
NoSocksLLC checks
*** RIVER *** [5d Ts 9d Kd] [Qc]
RSWANN bets $0.65, and is all in
NoSocksLLC calls $0.65
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RSWANN shows [Ad Qd] (a flush, Ace high)
NoSocksLLC mucks
RSWANN wins the pot ($7.50) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.30 | Rake $0.80
Board: [5d Ts 9d Kd Qc]
Seat 1: Wilson72 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Otter1 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: RSWANN (small blind) showed [Ad Qd] and won ($7.50) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: wildderr (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: cathcath didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Imbluffingagain didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: NoSocksLLC mucked [Jc Jd] - a straight, King high
Seat 8: Big Ben Surgeon didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: superTKE didn't bet (folded)


Should I be betting more when those flush draws are out there? I suppose (if I'm doing my math correctly), he had +EV to make that call -- so was pushing him the right move?

I'm clearly hitting that plateau where I would be better off if I were just ignorant, and it's killing me. The best analogy I can think of is this (if it makes sense). When I first started playing golf, I could pretty much go out and hack at about 90. Really had no idea how to play correctly, but eh, I wasn't bad. When I really started attacking the game, thinking about form, club selection, aim, etc...my scores instantly shot up to about 120. Here I was trying to learn -- and it was killing my game!

However, the end moral is -- without learning correctly, I would've never really been able to improve past shooting 90. So, I put in the time, got kicked around, and I can now shoot in the high 70s. I'm hoping poker works the same way.

Best,
EW

I've been getting hammered by flushes today.

Would it be in my best interest to pretty much check down on any four card flush draw -- and let them come to me? If I'm doing my Math correctly, you have about a 43% shot of hitting your flush if you get four from the flop. Unless I have outs where I can beat that -- is it really worth messing with? Especially at $10 or $25NL? Seems like folks really love to chase at these levels.

Best,
EW

If they pay like a pot-sized bet to chase a draw, man, you'll be getting rich quickly. And when they also make it super apparent when they hit - like a sudden out-of-nowhere all-in when I was raising the previous streets when the river gave a 3rd heart, like I just had happening to me 2 mins ago - you won't lose too much either.

It's not as high as 43%, for a rough estimate take the number of outs they have (9) and times it by 4 to hit by the river (36%). So there is about a 1/5 chance of them hitting on the turn and a 1/5 chance on the river...if you are certain they are drawing to a flush.

If you give them bad pot odds you'll make money in the long run as long as you don't pay them off when they hit

Definitely don't wait and see....then they won't call your river bet if they miss and you'll never make money :P

Your BR should be able to handle them hitting every so often, as long as your mental state can Keep Betting!! For example, if you could see they were definitely flush drawing in each hand the higher bet that they call with bad odds the more you make in the long run. If that makes sense...

Okay -- I'm really a fish this afternoon, so I'm drawing the session to a close.

I'm assuming it was just stupid to call this push, right? I mean -- I flopped quite well, and figured I was pretty much good...but, a bet like that I should just let go, no? I didn't, and it's easy to say it was stupid now -- but was it?

Full Tilt Poker Game #580922003: Table Meadows - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:53:34 ET - 2006/04/20
Seat 1: Peachyyy ($3)
Seat 2: Sam Black ($2.60)
Seat 3: all6sand7s ($8.55)
Seat 4: alkfjslk ($2.85)
Seat 5: NoSocksLLC ($12.30)
Seat 6: speer111 ($8.35)
Seat 7: tamino71 ($8.85)
Seat 8: pokerdove72 ($5.55)
Seat 9: Shaggy_TPT ($4.60)
speer111 posts the small blind of $0.05
tamino71 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoSocksLLC [Ac Jd]
pokerdove72 folds
Shaggy_TPT folds
Peachyyy calls $0.10
Sam Black folds
all6sand7s calls $0.10
alkfjslk folds
NoSocksLLC calls $0.10
speer111 calls $0.05
tamino71 checks
*** FLOP *** [Kh Js As]
speer111 checks
tamino71 checks
Peachyyy bets $0.10
all6sand7s calls $0.10
NoSocksLLC raises to $0.75
speer111 folds
tamino71 folds
Peachyyy raises to $2.85
all6sand7s folds
NoSocksLLC has 15 seconds left to act
NoSocksLLC calls $2.10
*** TURN *** [Kh Js As] [Kd]
Shaggy_TPT is feeling angry
Peachyyy checks
NoSocksLLC checks
*** RIVER *** [Kh Js As Kd] [Qh]
Peachyyy bets $0.05, and is all in
NoSocksLLC calls $0.05
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Peachyyy shows [Qs Ts] (a straight, Ace high)
NoSocksLLC mucks
Peachyyy wins the pot ($5.80) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.40 | Rake $0.60
Board: [Kh Js As Kd Qh]
Seat 1: Peachyyy showed [Qs Ts] and won ($5.80) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 2: Sam Black didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: all6sand7s folded on the Flop
Seat 4: alkfjslk didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: NoSocksLLC (button) mucked [Ac Jd] - two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 6: speer111 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: tamino71 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: pokerdove72 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Shaggy_TPT didn't bet (folded)

Best,
EW

Originally Posted by NoSocksLLC

Seat 1: Peachyyy ($3)

Against this player I just would have pushed and not worried about it. He can't hurt you too bad. Don't worry about this hand. Against a deeper opponent you will have to fold on boards like this.

You're probably playing fine, especially your good hands. Just don't slowplay too much. Where you're probably losing cash is by staying in to see a turn with marginal hands. Folding is the key to winning NL as far as I'm concerned. Also, do you track your play w/PT or something? It's pretty much a must.

Just my $.02

Yup, push - his stack makes the decision a no-brainer. Unlucky, but this kind of thing happens rarely - more often than not you're ahead, and you still had outs.

NoSocks, if you have AIM or MSN and ever want to discuss hands via chat, PM me, I'd be happy to go through things with you.

there's not really a lot in these hands. But lets have a look.

The 3rd hand. On the button I want to see a raise with AJ there. At your stakes, I'd like to bet 60 cents there. I'm happy if I can isolate one of those limpers and create dead money, on the button with AJ then I'm very happy... autoprofit if I know how to cont bet/raise. Who knows you might have folded out the Q10. What's your raising range in LP? I'd be raising KJ+/A10+, 88+ here.

With that flop there's nothing you can do. Just bad luck, the stacks are too shallow to get the info you need to fold.

The 2nd hand. On the flop the nut flush draw + overs is actually a slight favorite to win (I generally assume I have 50% equity because overcards are not always clean outs). So he ain't folding. If I was him I'd push that flop and put you to the test. As played, good check behind on the turn. Have to call that river after you take the turn check.

The 1st hand. Pretty poor play actually. I don't care what stakes you play you don't min raise. Raise at least half the pot. At these stakes if they have any kind of draw they would call. No point min raising with 2 draws out there. You were very lucky this hand, but I think you already know that.

Post more hands and keep working at it. From these hands I think there's a lot to work on.