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I think I could have gotten alot more value?

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  1. #1

    Default I think I could have gotten alot more value?

    Villain is 48/14 fish who min donk bets the flop constantly and then often slows down. 43 hand sample.

    Hand sort of played itself........wondering about turn and river sizing?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($8.24)
    MP1 ($4.96)
    MP2 ($3.70)
    CO ($7.52)
    Hero (Button) ($10.15)
    SB ($8.99)
    BB ($10)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with J, Q
    4 folds, Hero bets $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

    Flop: ($0.70) 9, 10, 2 (2 players)
    SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, SB calls $0.40

    Turn: ($1.70) K (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1, SB calls $1

    River: ($3.70) Q (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $2.60, SB calls $2.60

    Total pot: $8.90 | Rake: $0.43
  2. #2
    daviddem's Avatar
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    Raise flop bigger for fold equity (if you think you have any, otherwise don't raise): a pot sized raise is $1. Your raise is less than half pot.
    Bet pot on turn to set up stacks for a river shove (actually better overbet because if he is drawing and he misses he won't pay on the river)
    As played, shove the river because he is a fish.
    Last edited by daviddem; 09-05-2011 at 07:45 AM.
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  3. #3
    rpm's Avatar
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    $0.9 on flop
    $2.1 on turn (into $2.5)
    jam river

    edit: that seems close to pot on river. if you dont' want an SPR of ~1 on the river you could probably overbet the turn because his calling range will be a lot of pair+draw or two pair hands which won't fold and it sets up an easier river shove. i'd just do the $0.9, $2.1, jam though
    Last edited by rpm; 09-05-2011 at 07:40 AM.
  4. #4
    Sizing is too small on all streets.
  5. #5
    I'm unclear on the rationale for shoving the river. Isn't it possible that he has the nut straight (AJ)?

    Similarly, increasing the raise on the flop seems strange to me, because we're on a draw, and the villain could have a made hand (say, TJ, giving him a pair of tens).

    Are we just assuming that, because the villain is calling instead of raising, he can't possibly have anything? Isn't it worth considering that he has us beat already, and is just letting us be the aggressor so he doesn't have to indicate what he's got?

    Yes, we're told that Villain is a "fish who min donk bets the flop constantly and then often slows down." But in this case, he has neither min bet the flop (he called our raise), nor has he slowed down after the flop.
  6. #6
    If he was really dumb enough to call two barrels with AJ I guess he pretty much deserves whole stack, because, as we all know, stupidity pays off.

    You raise the flop for value, because you will get paid off good if you hit one of your outs. If you just call pathetic donkbet villain made, if he has any brains he will put you on some sort of weak draw, and generally think you missed a flop.

    You don't ASSUME anything against 48/14 villain. His actions are probably random and based on his own perception of strength of his hand.

    The fact that villain isn't aggressive obviously means he is passive and probably doesn't have a mindset to try and extract any extra value from his hand. He will just call down almost anything decent without bothering to raise.
  7. #7
    @ miconian He had min bet the flop., he can turn up with AJ here. I think a 48 / 14 turns up with worse many more times than better.
    Last edited by celtic123; 09-06-2011 at 01:55 PM.
  8. #8
    Still, only 12 combos of AJ for villain. And zillion of combos of all other junk he probably has.
  9. #9
    rpm's Avatar
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    HE CALLS WITH SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST AJ, HES A 48VPIP/14PFR LOOSE/PASSIVE CALLING STATION, HE PROBABLY CALLS WITH ANYTHING TWO PAIR +, IF NOT WIDER. WORRYING ABOUT VALUE-BETTING THE SECOND NUTS FOR THREE STREETS AGAINST SOMEONE SO STATIONY IS BONKERS.

    /DRUNK POST, EXCUSE CAPS
  10. #10
    Shotglass's Avatar
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    ^^^ pretty much this - minus the CAPS
  11. #11
    supa's Avatar
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    Put villain on a goddamn range.

    This point doesn't get made much around here anymore but I think it's important for op (sorry not op) to understand why AJ is rare here.

    Think about what type hands villain will call each street, what he might min-bet the flop with...

    If he has AJ here, can't he AK, AQ, AT and a bunch of other hands in his range? What about A9 or A2?

    Assign some kind of range to villain that you think he'll do this with and you'll see how often we're ahead.

    *edit* Love that the bc is being overrun by drunks!
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  12. #12
    If the Villain was a stronger player, would it still have been appropriate to raise on the flop?
  13. #13
    If villian was a strong player in the sb, this is a very different thread. The stronger sb player would be flatting the raise with a narrower range of hands, which would include TT,JJ, and most probably not donking out on the flop.
  14. #14
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    bigger on all streets postflop
  15. #15
    Yeah I agree with bigger on all streets.

    tbh, I figured on the river even this fish couldn't call without a J and was expecting a raise if he had one and I think that affected my sizing there.

    I was totally wrong as he showed Q8o
  16. #16

    THIS ALOT WANTS MORE VALUE.

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