I need a strategy to make $80 a day and then.............

I can quit my job because my wife just got a big promotion and that would be what I would need to average per day to be home free... oh the thought. Anyway I generally play $10 to $20 sngs at about 45% itm.But I've been tinkering around with 25 - 50 nl and have been pretty successful but still not that confident in the general strategy. I can quad table pretty good, is there any strategy that is systematic ? I've been watching this guy whos been literally pulling down thousands everyday I watch him, playing 8 tables 50 to 100 NL. So there is no doubt that my goals could be attainable. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I know I could probably do it on sngs but I fear the varience more than I would with a solid plan for 50NL especially after watching that guy destroy the tables daily.

Thx

Eat the Flesh

do you have poker tracker?

give us your stats and how many hands they cover and we can go from there

Originally Posted by Laeelin

do you have poker tracker?

give us your stats and how many hands they cover and we can go from there

Don't have it haven't really needed PT for sngs, until I just realized this $50Nl thing it might be pretty helpful. I guess I got some work to do. How many hands should I play before you need to see them?

Thanks for your response

someone at 50nl is not pulling in >1k per day. 80 a day is very doable. how much do you want to play per day? how many tables can you play? any idea of your winrate?

just for an example. if you play 5 hours, at 4 tables, you need to pull 8bb/100 to make 80 bucks. obviously, bb/100 can go down if you play more tables or hours or vice versa.

with absolutely no idea of your winrate, and assuming you are typically not a cash game player, i am going to assume 8bb/100 is optimistic, but maybe i'm wrong. Consider also, if you can 8 table for 5 hours, 4bb/100 will cut it, but obviously increased tables = decreased bb/100.

buy pokertracker, i also recommend pokerace hud. winrate is very variable at low hand numbers, but 10-20k hands and you're getting in the ballpark +- a few bb.

Greedo has a good take on it. My 2c:

- Get pokertracker and a heads up display. Gametime+ is free, but not quite as slick as Pokerace HUD.
- Pay attention to your table/seat selection (Fnord made a great sticky on this in Online Poker Rooms). There is no reason to sit in a crap game at these stakes.
- Bankroll management, make sure you have twenty buyins minimum and blah blah blah....
- Don't play low stakes ring without rakeback, or a bonus to clear.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac

- Don't play low stakes ring without rakeback, or a bonus to clear.

PokerStars' Rakeback comes in the form of FPP (frequent player points) towards PS merchandise. They also don't have any bonuses for me to clear. Would you recommend switching sites because of this?

Pokerstars is a really nice site. I love the tourneys, and I've dipped into the low stakes ring over the last few weeks and found it quite juicy.

That said, it takes ages to get Stars FPPs at 25NL / 50NL so in terms of pure profit, i think you are better off elsewhere. Looking at my pokertracker stats, Ive earned far more in bonuses over the last 50k hands than I've paid in rake. Also, if you always have a bonus on the way, it helps tide you through the odd downswing.

(edit BankintPayette - you are BankitDrew on stars, no? )

Also, the rake at Pokerstars is lower (at least for fixed limit games, not sure about NL) than most other sites. For example, at stars $2/4 LHE, the pot is only raked $1 once it reaches $20. Most sites rake 50c at $10, or even 25c at $5 as well. You'd be amazed how much those little rakes add up.

[quote="Greedo017"]someone at 50nl is not pulling in >1k per day. 80 a day is very doable. how much do you want to play per day? how many tables can you play? any idea of your winrate?

just for an example. if you play 5 hours, at 4 tables, you need to pull 8bb/100 to make 80 bucks. obviously, bb/100 can go down if you play more tables or hours or vice versa.

with absolutely no idea of your winrate, and assuming you are typically not a cash game player, i am going to assume 8bb/100 is optimistic, but maybe i'm wrong. Consider also, if you can 8 table for 5 hours, 4bb/100 will cut it, but obviously increased tables = decreased bb/100.

buy pokertracker, i also recommend pokerace hud. winrate is very variable at low hand numbers, but 10-20k hands and you're getting in the ballpark +- a few bb.[/quo

I'm not shitting ya, this guy was up $2400 2 days in a row EACH day.The third day $4300 . 25/.50 NL blinds. For some reason he didn't take his name off the search, so I've been watching him every forth day or so, now he has been playing .50/1.00 lately. One day he started at 10:30am and was still going at 7:30 at night.This is NO lie. 8 tables hes a friggen machine.

Originally Posted by Greedo017

someone at 50nl is not pulling in >1k per day. 80 a day is very doable. how much do you want to play per day? how many tables can you play? any idea of your winrate?

just for an example. if you play 5 hours, at 4 tables, you need to pull 8bb/100 to make 80 bucks. obviously, bb/100 can go down if you play more tables or hours or vice versa.

with absolutely no idea of your winrate, and assuming you are typically not a cash game player, i am going to assume 8bb/100 is optimistic, but maybe i'm wrong. Consider also, if you can 8 table for 5 hours, 4bb/100 will cut it, but obviously increased tables = decreased bb/100.

buy pokertracker, i also recommend pokerace hud. winrate is very variable at low hand numbers, but 10-20k hands and you're getting in the ballpark +- a few bb.

I could do 8 hours a day 3 to 4 tables

I net nice average $50/day by 4-tabling $25NL games. Simple TAG, with the least amount of fancy play. ABC poker at its purest form, with ocassional c-betting and second barrels against known players.

Don't fixate on winning rate, it makes the play more stressful and vulnerable to tilting.

$50 4-tabled longhand or 2-tabling shorthand with few weak players/table should net you desirable rate.

Strategy is simple. It's basic 19 hands poker (longhand), read some Aokrongly's stuff if you want to play longhand. Couterplay can be another choice.

If you want to 6max, then you can browse SmackinYaUp's posts and HH's - examples of solid TAG poker with some LAG flavour .

Originally Posted by Laeelin

do you have poker tracker?

give us your stats and how many hands they cover and we can go from there

What level should I start at$25 or $50 nl.what was the best for you when you started CG? I read your blog, I very happy for you to make a dream come true so far. That's the goal, but mine is probably lower for now. But if I can get away from my piece of shit job it would be like winning the lottery. Thanks for any help.

Originally Posted by Eat the Flesh

Originally Posted by Laeelin

do you have poker tracker?

give us your stats and how many hands they cover and we can go from there

What level should I start at$25 or $50 nl.what was the best for you when you started CG? I read your blog, I very happy for you to make a dream come true so far. That's the goal, but mine is probably lower for now. But if I can get away from my piece of shit job it would be like winning the lottery. Thanks for any help.

Start at 25nl. Conquer it for 15k hands, and then move on to 50.

4-6 tabling 50nl full ring for 80 bucks a day is a breeze.

Flesh,

Don't quit your job. You are clearly not ready to play poker as your main source of income.

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac

(edit BankintPayette - you are BankitDrew on stars, no? )

This is correct. you're alias?

ok, if you played 8 hours a day, 3-4 tables, you're looking at probably 7bb/100 to make 80 bucks a day.

In order to do this, you need to know beforehand that this is something you're capable of. this is very doable, but its not trivial. i'm playing tens of thousands of hands at 50nl before i'm quitting a job to play poker when i truly need the money.

and, just to give you an idea of making 4300 at 50nl. even if he's ten tabling, ten hours a day, he's pulling in 86bb/100... even when i run good, i've never pulled in that, even for only a couple thousand hands.

Ok here we go, I never claimed I was quitting my job TODAY, I'm here because I want help and to know if this doable (playing four tables and making at least $80 a day). I'm surely not a pro at CG but I'm pretty damn close at SNGs and I know the basics for CG. I would like advice from some of you PROS that play CG and make $80 a day or more. I'm very driven to succeed to make this a reality. I'm not a rookie (just at CG) it just seems more profitable playing NL. For anyone that don't believe me about that guy pulling down thousands a day, shoot me your email address and I'll gladly tell you where he plays and his screen name. I just prefer not everyone knowing. I really appreciate any help given. Thx

Originally Posted by Lukie

Flesh,

Don't quit your job. You are clearly not ready to play poker as your main source of income.

I agree, but what gives you the impression I'm not ?

Originally Posted by Vrax

I net nice average $50/day by 4-tabling $25NL games. Simple TAG, with the least amount of fancy play. ABC poker at its purest form, with ocassional c-betting and second barrels against known players.

Don't fixate on winning rate, it makes the play more stressful and vulnerable to tilting.

$50 4-tabled longhand or 2-tabling shorthand with few weak players/table should net you desirable rate.


How many hrs a day do you play?avg.
Strategy is simple. It's basic 19 hands poker (longhand), read some Aokrongly's stuff if you want to play longhand. Couterplay can be another choice.

If you want to 6max, then you can browse SmackinYaUp's posts and HH's - examples of solid TAG poker with some LAG flavour .

As far as the guy winning thousands at 50 NL, if it's at Stars he's probably rebuying whenever he pushes.

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

As far as the guy winning thousands at 50 NL, if it's at Stars he's probably rebuying whenever he pushes.

Good theory, but if he had the BR to bring that much to the tables wouldnt he be playing $100 at least?

Yeah, you're probably right.

Originally Posted by Seasider

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

As far as the guy winning thousands at 50 NL, if it's at Stars he's probably rebuying whenever he pushes.

Good theory, but if he had the BR to bring that much to the tables wouldnt he be playing $100 at least?

He HAS moved to $100nl the last 2 weeks or so like I said before. Ive been watching him alot . He almost seems systematic and he hardly ever loses big pots unless drawn out on.

Originally Posted by Eat the Flesh

Originally Posted by Lukie

Flesh,

Don't quit your job. You are clearly not ready to play poker as your main source of income.

I agree, but what gives you the impression I'm not ?

It's hard to explain. I guess you could say it's a 'sense' I've developed after reading so much FTR and 2+2.

And more specifically, if these aren't red flags....

But I've been tinkering around with 25 - 50 nl and have been pretty successful but still not that confident in the general strategy.

is there any strategy that is systematic ?

I've been watching this guy....

How many hands should I play before you need to see them?

just for an example. if you play 5 hours, at 4 tables, you need to pull 8bb/100 to make 80 bucks. obviously, bb/100 can go down if you play more tables or hours or vice versa.

A) Making money long-term in poker is not as simple as these calcuations, which even I'm guilty of using at times. Of course I try to use much more conservative estimates, which leads to my next point...

B) sustaining an 8ptbb/100 winrate for a long period of time is not realistic. The exception would be obviously if you could so severely outplay the rest of the field, but at this winrate you are absolutely murdering the game. And if you were, this thread wouldn't have happened.

What level should I start at$25 or $50 nl.

But if I can get away from my piece of shit job it would be like winning the lottery.

I don't know your financial or employment situation, but this is sounds like something that is going to have to be solved independantly of poker. Because a career in that, if it ever happens, is probably several hundred thousand hands off...

Ok here we go, I never claimed I was quitting my job TODAY, I'm here because I want help and to know if this doable (playing four tables and making at least $80 a day).

Yes, it's quite possible. People make thousands a day quadtabling. The idea of an NL25/NL50 player asking about quitting his job to play poker sounds absurd. Trust me it is.

I do understand the situation you are in and probably how you feel. You're objective at this time (in my opinion) should be to learn how to play the game, and play it well. Do this by reading FTR, 2+2, various books, and playing many countless hours of whatever it is you intend on playing (NLHE ring I assume). In the meantime I wouldn't even consider playing as a full-time professional a possibility.

Lukie, you've nailed this thread. Nice going sir.

yah buddy, if you need income, and seeing as you are married, you probably do, its not a good idea to go pro at 25nl... also even if you were to play ring for a couple months and move up to 100 or 200nl and be able to beat the game at a decent win rate, I think its way too soon ot just up and quit your job.

Originally Posted by boostNslide

yah buddy, if you need income, and seeing as you are married, you probably do, its not a good idea to go pro at 25nl... also even if you were to play ring for a couple months and move up to 100 or 200nl and be able to beat the game at a decent win rate, I think its way too soon ot just up and quit your job.

I never claimed to be going pro at 25 NL, I've been watching this guy that confirms this is doable(even at $50). so the post says , I need help with a game plan, ( actually strategy from someone who makes $80 or more a day. I can play 4 tables for 8 hours.I'm just asking for help in a game plan. I will not quit my job until I can OBVIOUSLY prove myself,I don't need negative seeds planted, just positive ones. I understand it takes practice, but I CAN be dedicated enough to follow through with it once I get the hang of it more. I've average probably 3 sngs a day for the last 3 years, and I'm 45%+ itm. I've tinkered with it last month and I'm probably + 1000 and thats only a few hrs a day, so I feel I could possibly make this happen and just want some advice from a winning player who is willing to help me out a little. If anyone is willing to help me,I would appreciate it. I'm done with this thread. If anyone wants to contact me. Shoot me a private message. Thanks for your responses

Eat the Flesh

If you're doing so well playing sngs, why change to ring?

[quote="midas06"]If you're doing so well playing sngs, why change to ring?[/q

Read post first

There's greater variance in ring than in sngs

ok, look, no guy is making 1000$+ a day at 50nl, its just not happening. As someone else said, he would have to be running something like 80bb/100, which is just not possible. You cannot substain those numbers. 30bb/100 would be amazing if someone substained it.

Im not calling you a liar, but maybe you are missing something, like someone else said hes probably using the rebuy trick to get a bigger stack. But I promise you hes not clearing 1000$ a day at 50nl.

Originally Posted by Lukie

B) sustaining an 8ptbb/100 winrate for a long period of time is not realistic. The exception would be obviously if you could so severely outplay the rest of the field, but at this winrate you are absolutely murdering the game.

Hm, does 8bb/100 really mean you're murdering the game? I mean, do you really need to be some kind of poker god (compared to rest at your limit) to get this winrate?

dude... no one is gonna wanna help you if you act like a cry baby. Seriously man, wtf is wrong with you? No one has been negative, just realistic. If you cant take people trying to help you in a realistic way, then you wont be able to take playing as a pro. Please go throw a fit elsewhere, because no one has done anything but try to provide you with help and information.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by Lukie

B) sustaining an 8ptbb/100 winrate for a long period of time is not realistic. The exception would be obviously if you could so severely outplay the rest of the field, but at this winrate you are absolutely murdering the game.

Hm, does 8bb/100 really mean you're murdering the game? I mean, do you really need to be some kind of poker god (compared to rest at your limit) to get this winrate?

no, I dontk now hat lukie is talking about. 8ptbb/100 at 25nl is a fine winrate, 20ptbb/100 I hear is substainable though. I think anything below ~7ptbb/100 at 25nl is pretty bad though. That being said, to be 'murdering the game' at 25nl I think you would need about 15ptbb/100.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by Lukie

B) sustaining an 8ptbb/100 winrate for a long period of time is not realistic. The exception would be obviously if you could so severely outplay the rest of the field, but at this winrate you are absolutely murdering the game.

Hm, does 8bb/100 really mean you're murdering the game? I mean, do you really need to be some kind of poker god (compared to rest at your limit) to get this winrate?

When it comes to winrates at the microlimits, over 10PTBB is sustainable and that to be killing the game you would be beating it for more than that. At the higher limits 8 would be absolutely destroying the game and is not sustainable.

Originally Posted by Lukie

The idea of an NL25/NL50 player asking about quitting his job to play poker sounds absurd. Trust me it is.

Much love Lukie, but I think this is off base.The general opinion is that 80/day is doable. If he can live on 80 bucks a day (which a lot of single men could), then it's perfectly feasible that he could "go pro."

Probably in this case you are right; the OP has no business trying to play professionally. But I think in many cases, multi-tabling 50NL could sustain a good player with few expenses.

Originally Posted by boostNslide

yah buddy, if you need income, and seeing as you are married, you probably do, its not a good idea to go pro at 25nl... also even if you were to play ring for a couple months and move up to 100 or 200nl and be able to beat the game at a decent win rate, I think its way too soon ot just up and quit your job.

In the original post he said his wife just received a promotion, so the financial burden on him is greatly lessened, I assume. There are probably other factors, such as whether the wife is supportive of this, et cetera, et cetera, blah blah blah. I really don't give a damn about the specifics, this thread bored me to tears halfway through (great post though, lukie) but I thought I should mention that the posters seemed to be missing some details in the original post. I imagine the OP is not talking about putting nine kids through ivy league with 25NL winnings, just seeing if it is possible to be a semi-semi-pro.

When it comes to winrates at the microlimits, over 10PTBB is sustainable and that to be killing the game you would be beating it for more than that. At the higher limits 8 would be absolutely destroying the game and is not sustainable.

Agree, but +8ptbb/100 winrate is certainly sustainable, you just have to be crushing the game.

Btw, at 2+2, the general consensus is that +5ptbb/100 is killing a game. Take that for what it's worth...

Originally Posted by boostNslide

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by Lukie

B) sustaining an 8ptbb/100 winrate for a long period of time is not realistic. The exception would be obviously if you could so severely outplay the rest of the field, but at this winrate you are absolutely murdering the game.

Hm, does 8bb/100 really mean you're murdering the game? I mean, do you really need to be some kind of poker god (compared to rest at your limit) to get this winrate?

no, I dontk now hat lukie is talking about. 8ptbb/100 at 25nl is a fine winrate, 20ptbb/100 I hear is substainable though. I think anything below ~7ptbb/100 at 25nl is pretty bad though. That being said, to be 'murdering the game' at 25nl I think you would need about 15ptbb/100.

If you can share your experience with ring games above the NL25 level, it would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by Lukie

When it comes to winrates at the microlimits, over 10PTBB is sustainable and that to be killing the game you would be beating it for more than that. At the higher limits 8 would be absolutely destroying the game and is not sustainable.

Agree, but +8ptbb/100 winrate is certainly sustainable, you just have to be crushing the game.

Btw, at 2+2, the general consensus is that +5ptbb/100 is killing a game. Take that for what it's worth...

At what limits is that sustainable? At the upper limits Id be very surprised to see someboyd with that winrate, maybe Im confusing sustainable win rates in limit, Im not sure. And yea, at everything but the microlimits 5ptbb/100 is killing the game, at $25NL though you are soundly beating it I wouldnt say you are killing it.

Originally Posted by Eat the Flesh

Originally Posted by boostNslide

yah buddy, if you need income, and seeing as you are married, you probably do, its not a good idea to go pro at 25nl... also even if you were to play ring for a couple months and move up to 100 or 200nl and be able to beat the game at a decent win rate, I think its way too soon ot just up and quit your job.

I never claimed to be going pro at 25 NL, I've been watching this guy that confirms this is doable(even at $50). so the post says , I need help with a game plan, ( actually strategy from someone who makes $80 or more a day. I can play 4 tables for 8 hours.I'm just asking for help in a game plan. I will not quit my job until I can OBVIOUSLY prove myself,I don't need negative seeds planted, just positive ones. I understand it takes practice, but I CAN be dedicated enough to follow through with it once I get the hang of it more. I've average probably 3 sngs a day for the last 3 years, and I'm 45%+ itm. I've tinkered with it last month and I'm probably + 1000 and thats only a few hrs a day, so I feel I could possibly make this happen and just want some advice from a winning player who is willing to help me out a little. If anyone is willing to help me,I would appreciate it. I'm done with this thread. If anyone wants to contact me. Shoot me a private message. Thanks for your responses

Eat the Flesh

Lol, I think you have a very serious misconception about poker in general. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your line of reasoning goes something like this:

"I currently make about 40k a year at a job I hate. I can kiss 25% of that away to Uncle Sam. So I need to make $30,000 a year, tax-free. Ok, let's divide that by 365. Hmmm. $80 a day. Hmmm. I can play 8 hours a day, everyday. So I just need to make $10 an hour. Furthermore, I'm playing 4 tables at once teheheeh!! I just have to make $2.50 an hour per table. Piece of cake!"

Unforunately, it's not that simple. Like I implied before, in order to make your dream a reality, your first step should be to become an excellent player while maintaining financial security. Whatever that means, you should do that. Also note that this is strictly my opinion, and the above paragraph was just my interpretation of what you have said thus far in this thread. If I am wrong about either, I apologize, and I'm certainly not trying to offend you. I just think you are way off-base with your line of reasoning. FTR is a very good start. It's how I got mine.

Originally Posted by sejje

Originally Posted by Lukie

The idea of an NL25/NL50 player asking about quitting his job to play poker sounds absurd. Trust me it is.

Much love Lukie, but I think this is off base.The general opinion is that 80/day is doable. If he can live on 80 bucks a day (which a lot of single men could), then it's perfectly feasible that he could "go pro."

Probably in this case you are right; the OP has no business trying to play professionally. But I think in many cases, multi-tabling 50NL could sustain a good player with few expenses.

So do you think there are ANY (and I mean that in a very literal sense) circumstances in which a player with absolutely no experience above the NL50 level should attempt to quit his job and play poker professionally? I assume the answer is no, in which case I would agree with you...

Originally Posted by SonOfAkira

Originally Posted by boostNslide

yah buddy, if you need income, and seeing as you are married, you probably do, its not a good idea to go pro at 25nl... also even if you were to play ring for a couple months and move up to 100 or 200nl and be able to beat the game at a decent win rate, I think its way too soon ot just up and quit your job.

In the original post he said his wife just received a promotion, so the financial burden on him is greatly lessened, I assume. There are probably other factors, such as whether the wife is supportive of this, et cetera, et cetera, blah blah blah. I really don't give a damn about the specifics, this thread bored me to tears halfway through (great post though, lukie) but I thought I should mention that the posters seemed to be missing some details in the original post. I imagine the OP is not talking about putting nine kids through ivy league with 25NL winnings, just seeing if it is possible to be a semi-semi-pro.

Yeah I considered this too, but he also made it pretty clear that he needed to make $80 a day on average, which totals somewhere around $30,000 a year. Meh, I think he has the determination to do it, I just hope he realizes that at this point in time he's clearly not ready and heeds my advice, as I think it is quite good and I've put a lot of time into trying to help him.

Lukie, I think in general your advice is very sound and prudent, but I also think if this guy hates his job, has a tolerant wife making good money and wants to give it a (long) shot, well, more power to him. I've recently started transitioning from working more to working less by way of grinding low-stakes games, and, while I can tell it will be a touch and go way of making a semi-living, it's also a thrilling thing to attempt.

come on guys. objectively speaking, 80 a day isn't that hard.

maybe for the OP, but it's not that hard.
I'm willing to take on the following prop bet:

no bonuses, no rake back. I make 80 a day for a month. I can play as much or as little in a day as I want. I will play the same stakes (probably NL100). If I hit +80 I retire for the day. If I have one day in which I cannot make +80, I lose. If I do it for 30 days in a row, I win. BTW I've never actually attempted this.

What odds would you be willing to give?

Heh, salsa, I actually think that would be quite tough. I think it's basically a statistical certainty that you would lose that bet. Meh, maybe if you were really crushing a game and playing a low variance style you could. By the way the $80/day figure is almost irrelevant in this case as a full time, very solid player should have absolutely no problem averaging this, but being in the green day in and day out for a full month is basically unheard of. I think.

My advice to you would be to SLOWLY ease into this.I know one strategy is to take one of your vacation weeks and pretend as if you are a full time pro player and see how you feel then(i.e. wake up at noon or whatever and devote the full 5-8 hours a day for that ENTIRE 5 day week).If at the end you feel ok then perhaps slowly transitioning into the pro lifestyle would be the best approach(and less stressful for you and the missus).

Well I did $12 an hour at 25NL over 6.5k hands and $15 an hour at 50NL over roughly 15k hands. That was playing 4/5 tables at once so if the site would let me play more then the 5 table max I could play 8 tables and live off 50NL without any bother.

Whats the problem?

WhooFleurys idea is good by the way and dude nobody was trying to insult you in this thread.

going pro

You need a deep bankroll to start with.
So no matter what stakes your playing if that br represents money you need to buy stuff (or it will get money taken from it) then it needs to be deep. I dont think you can consider anything less than 2-3k and THATS optimistic for just 25nl and 50nl.
Yes these games are detroyable. I agree with lukie that if you do better than 5bbs/100 you are slaughtering games and need to play higher anyhow. But as a pro you need a deeper bankroll and moving up requires much more than just 20 buy ins for the next level
Personally, i wouldnt be going pro at anything less than 100NL 4 tabling for 5-10hrs per day. Add to that you need a 10k br imo to be able to remove large chunks of cash shud you need them (you having another source of income through your wife makes this seem absurd but many pros at medium stakes play with huge overrolls for their stakes)
Also, you need to know, be certain you can destroy the stakes you are playing. 25nl and 50nl are destroyable for a good player imo, but that depends on good table selection, buddy lists etc.
I agree with lukie here. Until you can show 50k hands at 50nl winning easily and long term i dont think you have an chance of thinking about going pro. Only then can u begin to consider it.

Saying that, bonus sites sugest tht you can bonus whore around the poker comunity for (25 or 50k?) per year if you take advantage of all bonuses etc including casinos i would guess. THAT is a more reliable and attainble goal, but again, i think you need a significantly deeper br than you have at the moment.
(plz someone correct the 25 or 50k, i cant remember, but im pretty sure it was $50k per year on bonus hunting)

I dont get why you guys are jumping to this guys defense, when he was never attacked. Sure if his wife is making some good money, thats great. But the problem with lower stakes and going pro is, if you are at lower stakes, its assumed your br is 500-4000. And even on the high end with 4k, if you run dry for a couple weeks and have to cut into the br to pay bills, well that cripples you. So what happens if he quits and has his 4k, then runs bad or plays bad down to 2k or less. Now he has to step down limits, and he is making, less while his wife starts to worry, and he starts to get stressed. What if he busts? Will his wife happily hand over the CC so he can reload? How many times will she do this? This is all hypotheical, but they are all very possible situations that could come up, and they are not complimentary to a good mind set for poker. If on the other hand you have a br of 50k and you are playing higher limits, you can take a hit to the roll to pay bills and not even feel it.

Pretty much the basis of not going pro at lower stakes is that almost anything in this world costs 500$, car accident? your deductable is probalby atleast 500$, medical accident? just ask boondock, its not cheap. Pretty much if anything at all goes wrong and you need to pay for something, youll effectively cripple your br.

I don't think anybody's "jumping to this guy's defense." Just offering different opinions. You and Lukie are the voice of reason here, for sure, but poker is not an entirely reasonable pursuit. If, and I mean if, he's in a financial situation where he can try this and not wind up divorced and living in a cardboard box...it's still probably not the best idea, but screw it. People stay in jobs they hate their entire lives for fear of financial disaster--I at least give him credit for trying to figure a way out, even if it's a long shot.

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

People stay in jobs they hate their entire lives for fear of financial disaster--I at least give him credit for trying to figure a way out, even if it's a long shot.

Bingo. I never thought much of Rich Dad Poor Dad, but I do like that part where he mentions people stay in the same stinking job doing the same stinking thing for their whole stinking life 'cos they fear - "what if" I have an accident, "what if" I run bad, "what if" my wife loses her job... bla bla bla if you try hard enough you'll always find a reason not to take a risk. Of course there's a fine line between taking a risk, and being reckless.

I see that point made by Boost, Lukie, et. al. that doing it at low stakes with a low bankroll is closer to reckless than risk taking... I accept that: after all, the line separating ambitious from reckless is entirely subjective
Besides I don't even want to go pro because I'd be too stressed... and there's too much I love about teaching; I couldn't take the isolation either - maybe with a partner to play alongside...

as for the prop bet; yes it would be very hard. I give myself 25% chance of doing it and would accept 3:1 odds
But to get $2400 in a month would be a piece of cake.

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

as for the prop bet; yes it would be very hard. I give myself 25% chance of doing it and would accept 3:1 odds
But to get $2400 in a month would be a piece of cake.

So you are saying you will take a bet for 3:1 odds that you could have a winning day every single day of the month? And atleast $80 a day? All at $100NL? What site would this be at? I dont have enough expendable cash to make this worthwhile, but I would still be very very surprised to see this done.

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

as for the prop bet; yes it would be very hard. I give myself 25% chance of doing it and would accept 3:1 odds
But to get $2400 in a month would be a piece of cake.

So you are saying you will take a bet for 3:1 odds that you could have a winning day every single day of the month? And atleast $80 a day? All at $100NL? What site would this be at? I dont have enough expendable cash to make this worthwhile, but I would still be very very surprised to see this done.

Me too, simply because you can't even have a single losing day. Thats just not likely. Making $2400 in a month however, even at 50NL, is not a huge challenge.

FWIW I average much more than $80 a day.

I have never had a single week where I won every day, let alone a whole month.


I also made the following post today in another thread, but it seems to fit here too:
>0BB/100 is killing the game.
0 to -10 is average
< -10 you probably have a leak.



Good Luck.

Eh so you need to be killing the game just to win back what you lose on the rakes? -Or if say 5BB/100 is killing the game.. then what is 7.5BB/100? (which is already 50% better) Absolutely butchering it beyond recognition? And 10BB/100? No words to describe it anymore?..

While I totally agree that -10 til 0 BB/100 is average (due to rakes, more people have to lose than win), I think certain terms here might be a bit misleading..

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

>0BB/100 is killing the game.
0 to -10 is average
< -10 you probably have a leak.

I know that sounds good but basically its a argument over the definitions of the words 'beating', 'killing' and 'losing'.

The definition of killing a game must be wrt the stakes in question among many other things.

I agree with Lukie. A true winrate of 8ptBB/100 is killing the game at say 100NL and above. Very few beat the game at this margin. All marginal winners or even break even players will have streches of ~10k hands of 10ptBB/100 or more if they play enough. The newbies are the ones to interpret these nukmbers as their true winrate.

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

FWIW I average much more than $80 a day.

I have never had a single week where I won every day, let alone a whole month.


I also made the following post today in another thread, but it seems to fit here too:
>0BB/100 is killing the game.
0 to -10 is average
< -10 you probably have a leak.

Good Luck.

Well that's why you get 3:1
I wouldn't offer 1:3 to average $80 over a month

Now I have no doubt you're not lying. But you must remember that you're not *attempting* to win every day. On some days you would run a bit bad, lose and quit. Now imagine you start playing midnight EST (that's 3:00pm to me) and you will not stop until you actually make your target. Yes, it's still tough. But I'm willing to take 3:1

Ah, so 10BB/100 would be killing the game at 100NL or more?

Ok I can see that very clearly. But I don't think you need to be a poker god to get these kind of winrates at 25NL or maybe 50NL..

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

>0BB/100 is killing the game.
0 to -10 is average
< -10 you probably have a leak.

I know that sounds good but basically its a argument over the definitions of the words 'beating', 'killing' and 'losing'.

The definition of killing a game must be wrt the stakes in question among many other things.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...=280306#280306

There is no such thing as a win rate. Quit worrying about it.

How many hrs a day do you play?avg.

From 4 to 8 hours/day with breaks. Average 30hours/week.

I watched that guy for the better part of his 12 hour 8 table session and he's still going ,but I'm going to bed. So here are his stats so far +$4100 on 8 tables for at least 12 hours. There are no secret tricks to rebuy or anything like that, He just stacking and bullying the shit out of everyone.You will eat crow if you don't believe me. 1 table he's at +$1878 and +$1200 at another one.

Originally Posted by Eat the Flesh

I watched that guy for the better part of his 12 hour 8 table session and he's still going ,but I'm going to bed. So here are his stats so far +$4100 on 8 tables for at least 12 hours. There are no secret tricks to rebuy or anything like that, He just stacking and bullying the shit out of everyone.You will eat crow if you don't believe me. 1 table he's at +$1878 and +$1200 at another one.

Whats his username and what site is he playing on?

PM me if you dont want it public.

PM me too. I want to see this

Edit: triple post that I wasn't quick enough for

What limit does he play at?

Hey, would it not be possible to just play while you decide. try 3 hours a night and when you get to 40 hours, (a week @ your day job) what have ya made. I use this all the time. If I ever get to even close to my day job $rate/hr, minus commute, uniform, benifits, tim hortons and any other costs that working has, I'm gone. I'll work part time doing something I love to do for the social aspects and to see the sun. Of course i'd have to make it consistantly over many months first. right now I make about $4 or $5 an hour at $10NL, ten hours a week, over the last 100 hours, nowhere near the $25 and hour over 2040 hours(1 year of work) I need to quit.

I'm in a similar situation to what Eat the Flesh wants to be in. I'm basically a beginner, but poker is at the moment my only source of income. There are a few important points here though:

- I live in Estonia, where the cost of living is a bit lower, and wages are MUCH lower. I'm aiming at $40 a day quad tabling $10NL, which was the income of my previous job. This is hard, but I think possible. In any case I should be able to do it once I move up to $25NL.

- I don't NEED to win this to survive at the moment. I would just be doing nothing if I wasn't doing this, because I don't feel like working right now.

I know you guys think it's a bit silly, but of course it's possible. And for me my situation makes the experiment a worthwhile risk. It may be the same for our friend.

Anyway, Eat the Flesh, if you're still reading this thread, here's my advice:

Nobody can really tell you a strategy that will work. Read AOKs 19 hands posts, try that, and see how you go. You'll end up developing your own strategy, and hopefully that will work.

To find out if you're strategy is working, get poker tracker.

Once you've got a basic idea for strategy, the rest is experience.

I'm trying playing very tight pre-flop and then very aggressive post flop, and just hope that there are silly people who want to call with low kickers or draws with very bad odds, and nobody has flopped a set. It's worked for a few thousand hands. I seem to get people all in with top pair low kicker, or nothing, often enough. If I find over more hands it's not working I'll change something, and I know it certainly won't work at higher limits, so I'll have to adapt.

So, if you don't need the money to survive, then play ring games for a while and develop a little bit of a style that seems to work, then go for it. Just don't be too displeased when you find it's not working and you have to go back to 9-5 at the office.

Me, I'm going to keep at it for a while. If nothing else it's giving me a bit of freedom, and it's a fun thing to try.

alright, like I said Im not calling you a liar, but still something seems wrong. Making 1k a day, and more so 4k a day, 8 tabling 50nl consistantly is just not realistic at all. 10ptbb/100 is a very nice win rate for 50nl, if you expect more thats bad. And Im sorry but just from what youve said it doesnt seem like you will be making that. Maybe Im completely wrong, but from the questions you asked I dont see you making 10ptbb/100.

Either way, 80$ is very possible, at 10ptbb/100, youd have to play 800 hands a day, which is very easy quading. It sounds all fine and good, but youve gotta figure out how many ptbb's/100 you are making, then you can figure for youself how much you can make a day on average.

He's +$3400 this morning so far- biggest table is +1500- His is at 100NL like I mentioned earlier . But at 50 NL he was at +2000 the few days I watched him.

Originally Posted by Eat the Flesh

He's +$3400 this morning so far- biggest table is +1500- His is at 100NL like I mentioned earlier . But at 50 NL he was at +2000 the few days I watched him.

That's all well and good but its completely useless unless we know who you're talking about.

You wont make anything playing the free tables on absolute! You need to make a deposit and play the real thing. The free chips and even real $0.01/$0.02 are worlds apart.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

You wont make anything playing the free tables on absolute! You need to make a deposit and play the real thing. The free chips and even real $0.01/$0.02 are worlds apart.

hah... yah are you sure this guy is playing on real money tables ??

I 6-table 5NL at PartyPoker, I can make 15-20$ in like 2 hours.
Maybe play 8 hours? Like a real job?

gl on your poker