I don't understand how people beat NL50

This is absolutely ridiculous.

For the last month I have been trying to build my bankroll of $1100 up past NL50 level.

I am pretty much just playing the nuts. Set farming, waiting for big pairs, AK, AQ etc. And every time without fail, I win 2-3 times, then get destroyed 2-3 times. It isn't just a little downsing, it happens every time.

Today is the absolutely perfect example. I start on $1100, win it up to $1200 with a set, an AA and a KK. Then I lose $150 when my AA loses to JJ, my KK loses to QQ and I get hit set over set on the river.

I take a break, I start again, I get myself up to $1250. Great! And then just now my AA lost to a runner runner straight and my QQ lost to 77 all in preflop, and i'm back down to $1150.

This EXACT situation has been happening to me for over a month. My roll moves between $1000 and $1300 every day, and never goes any higher. I'm not the best player ever to grace Party's halls, but i'm pretty good and i'm playing it all correctly. Not trying anything fancy, no big bluffs, nothing. Just playing the nuts like everyone says you should do for NL25/50.

So how the hell do you do it? Is it a month long downsing that will disappear eventually? I am getting frustrated, and there's nothing I can do. I'm not being outplayed, except occasionally when they flop a set to my overpair i'm always ahead when the money goes in.

If anyone has any insight it would be most appreciated. I can't take much more of this. I'm not trying to whine about bad beats, they happen, but this much, over and over?

-Andrew

Originally Posted by Andy Kay

This is absolutely ridiculous.

For the last month I have been trying to build my bankroll of $1100 up past NL50 level.

I am pretty much just playing the nuts. Set farming, waiting for big pairs, AK, AQ etc. And every time without fail, I win 2-3 times, then get destroyed 2-3 times. It isn't just a little downsing, it happens every time.

Today is the absolutely perfect example. I start on $1100, win it up to $1200 with a set, an AA and a KK. Then I lose $150 when my AA loses to JJ, my KK loses to QQ and I get hit set over set on the river.

I take a break, I start again, I get myself up to $1250. Great! And then just now my AA lost to a runner runner straight and my QQ lost to 77 all in preflop, and i'm back down to $1150.

This EXACT situation has been happening to me for over a month. My roll moves between $1000 and $1300 every day, and never goes any higher. I'm not the best player ever to grace Party's halls, but i'm pretty good and i'm playing it all correctly. Not trying anything fancy, no big bluffs, nothing. Just playing the nuts like everyone says you should do for NL25/50.

So how the hell do you do it? Is it a month long downsing that will disappear eventually? I am getting frustrated, and there's nothing I can do. I'm not being outplayed, except occasionally when they flop a set to my overpair i'm always ahead when the money goes in.

If anyone has any insight it would be most appreciated. I can't take much more of this. I'm not trying to whine about bad beats, they happen, but this much, over and over?

-Andrew

I apologize for the low content response, and while i'm sure it's frustrating, you're not experiencing a downswing at all. Playing break even poker isn't a downswing, and it's better than the vast majority of poker players. Silver lining, I imagine.
How many hands do you play a day, what's the sample size for this month long ordeal?

I'm 4 tabling quite consistently. I haven't got hand histories from Martins where I did a bit of it unfortunately. It's probably something like 30,000 with those factored in.

-Andrew

it is possible to run break even over that number.
perhaps a switch of game or a bit of time off for a week might help?

Funny you should mention that. I played a little Omaha and 7 Stud last night for the first time, just to mix things up a little. Stud was good fun. Was just playing party's lowest limit for both. Wound up down about $20, no biggie.

Hopefully it is just a break even streak that will pick up soon. I'm back to $1250 as we speak.

*fingers crossed*

-Andrew

If everyone plays a rocklike game at $50, then you playing a rocklike game is unlikely to bring in $$$. have you tried not lagging it up exactly, but taking advantage of SCs (and even USCs and SGs) in position etc? That's where most of my profit comes fr0m - you can both raise and call raises with suited connectors (in the right position etc.) and the payoffs are marvellous if you make it.

You also seem to be over-concerned with your high PPs. They are good hands but they're only one pair - they are easily beaten and maybe you stay in too long with them in the face of dangerous strength.

I play SCs, and even suited gappers. When I say I nut camp, I don't mean I only ever play those cards. I merely meant I don't get into marginal situations where I may or may not have the best hand.

I actually play pretty lose and like to see a lot of flops. It is mostly a case of me loosing all ins when I have the best hand then people hit their sets. That's what it boils down to. And it happens over and over and over. An irregular ammount considering you should set your pocket pair about 10% of the time. Just today my AA has lost 4 times, KK twice, all to lower pockets except the guy who hit the runner runner straight.

And this is a regularity =/

-Andrew

Well, it isn't though, that's the thing. If it seems like it is now, it won't at some undetermined point in the future.

And you're SURE you're getting your money in while ahead all the time? It's one thing to push pre-flop and have 77 set on the flop, but it's another think to push a 3JK flop and get stacked by 33. And I don't see 33 pushing pre-flop or claling a decent bet on a non-3 flop...

Sounds like me...
When i moved up to 50NL im barely break even,this mainly because of big hands not paying off,and when they do pay off i get a couple of beats so that im back to where i started.But i have to say,as long as im break even its all good.Eventually i wont keep running in bad luck like FH over FH and things like that.

Play tighter. Weak-tight passive if need be. Play at the most dumbed down level you can possibly play and still win with minimal risk. Then, only once you are comfortable with the bigger chips and slightly better play, open up to your normal game.

Originally Posted by Renton

Play tighter. Weak-tight passive if need be. Play at the most dumbed down level you can possibly play and still win with minimal risk. Then, only once you are comfortable with the bigger chips and slightly better play, open up to your normal game.

I totally respect you, but this is the exact opposite of what beats Party 50NL. Loose Aggressive owns this level. Players here are just smart enough to give you credit for a bad image, but still too stupid to realize you're tilting them with it.

Our hero has to devise a way to get AK payed off by KJ on a K high board. The status quo isn't loose enough for that kind of marginal value.

I recommend our Hero raise a wide range in position, and start to develop a postflop metagame. Push people around and react to resistance. You basically can't beat this level if you're a nitbag pussy. Time to man up at 50NL. You can do some serious ducking and weaving to a big stack here.

Rondavu, I wasn't saying this weaktightpussypassive was the way he should always play. I am just saying that he should play a low risk, minimum gain, maximum edge game until he gets used to the stakes. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you play without confidence you will lose. It happened to me when I moved up to 50nl, and it happened to me when I moved up to 100nl. You have to be confident in your game, and you have to not really care about the money, in order to win.

Originally Posted by Renton

Rondavu, I wasn't saying this weaktightpussypassive was the way he should always play. I am just saying that he should play a low risk, minimum gain, maximum edge game until he gets used to the stakes. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you play without confidence you will lose. It happened to me when I moved up to 50nl, and it happened to me when I moved up to 100nl. You have to be confident in your game, and you have to not really care about the money, in order to win.

Fair enough, but hero needs to know that he should be building a more aggressive approach one careful piece at a time in that case.

I mostly play for fun and not trying to build a bankroll...but from my own personal experience, Renton and Rondavu, you guys are both right. I started playing 50NL very tight...but than realized I was not getting paid enough once I hit the big Group 0, Group 1 cards....I than switched to loose aggressive and it makes a huge difference in getting the same cards paid out. Setting a loose aggressive table image upfront has big rewards at 50NL.
What I find in 50Nl is that everyone is waiting for a big pot, so whenever someones raises big preflop (which rarely happens) all the SCs and Flush draws and small / medium pairs like to join the party....and the AA and KK get cracked. To Rondavu's point the SCs pay big. So don't get cute with AA, AK, QQ, JJ...play them aggressively.
Renton, don't you prefer the quality of play better at 100NL than 50NL...personally to me its better poker.

Originally Posted by Cava72

Renton, don't you prefer the quality of play better at 100NL than 50NL...personally to me its better poker.

Yes. The players are much easier to read and manipulate. It's like 100nl is the 'cusp' of player awareness. They know just enough to be dangerous to themselves.

My absolute favorite thing about 100nl I've noticed is the tight-passives who minraise in EP. I usually call with any two minorly connected cards if he has at least 100bb behind. 50:1 implied odds every time. Every now and then BOOM. AA cracked for +100bb to me.

What I also find funny at 100NL is the people who join the table and only buy in for $50...they might as well announce that they do not want to lose too much money and therefore will play supertight....those are the people easiest to bluff.
Hopefully one of these days I will get a chance to play at the same table as you Renton....from what I read you are clearly a very solid player from whom one can learn from.
See you at the ring games...

I am pretty much just playing the nuts.

this is hardly a defensible reason for why you shouldnt be winning. it IS the reason you cant progress.

play fewer tables and start playing poker. that means developing reads, monitoring and adusting your own image (which is pretty transparent btw), mixing up your play of hands by street, attacking weakness with position alone, calling bluffs, betting marginal leads etc.

if everyone only plays their winning hands, we would all lose to the rake.

you need to learn to fold your overpairs prbly.

Try some cheap "image destroying" tactics, then switch to value-betting. You have to be percieved as "total idiot and retard" not "yet another bookreader". And you need to do it with the least -EV possible.

For example:
- Raise lone EP limper from the CO/D, c-bet & show if you flop air, if you flop something try to show it down and get some value out of it. From now you are labelled "raises crap".

- Re-raise some weaktight nit and bet the flop if nobody coldcalls you. Show down your J2o. Now you are "bully"

- If you are in BB with multilimps preflop, pop it to 10BB and pot it on flop. Any 2 cards. Another bullylike trick.

- Call some shortstack push up to 10BB if you are sure your call will close the betting (nits on blinds for example). Any pair, suited connentors, 2 big cards, ATos, Axs. Gamble with shorties. You can also iso-reraise that shortie in order to fold out nits. Nits will not call you without good pocket pair or AK, if you get cold-called, check/fold it down unless you hit hard.


That's my way it works on 50NL. It's not true LAGG, just some simple image boosters a'la Mike Caro

There is also "The Coach, Doyle and Lazy Gus" post on ParttimePoker site. Basic gear shifting.

Rondavu, could you post some your hand histories when you destroy your image then drag huge pot with "a hand"? I'd like to learn more stuff like this....

Originally Posted by Vrax

- Re-raise some weaktight nit and bet the flop if nobody coldcalls you.

What u mean by this?Im confused...

What u mean by this?Im confused...

Example:
EP player with "ABC" tight preflop range (TT+, AQ+) opens 4BB in any position. Folds to you, you are in CO. You have 2 cards. You re-raise him to 12BB and rep AA-QQ/AKs. If button and blinds fold and opener calls then checks the flop, you bet at most flops (rags are the best) fairy strongly, 2/3-full pot. If he has half a brain he will muck missed overs and everything lower than QQ overpair.

BUT, if you re-raise preflop and button or blinds CALL you, you shut down (unless button or blinds are truly loose preflop and bad players but if you have such a read, you shouldn't make such a move in a first place).

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...highlight=nits

Just tried to implement some of the stuff mentioned here. Was up about $80. Then I get hit in the face set over set and lose pretty much all of it.

Back down to $1100 again. Hasn't been a damn day where I haven't ended where I started.

-Andrew

don't sweat it

50nl is for learning not for making gobs of cash.

I know, it's just frustrating when you play 20+ hours a week for a month and make no progress. Guess this is more me venting than anything else, although I like the aggression and table image tips.

On the plus side i'm back up to $1180. Was at $1200 but some guy chased a gutshot draw with me making potsized bets and hit =/

Lets hope it holds.

-Andrew

Someone was talking about J2o, well:

***** Hand History for Game 4096975977 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, April 26, 05:09:26 ET 2006
Table Table 95780 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: famous50 ( $21.60 )
Seat 2: Jitsu12 ( $46.30 )
Seat 3: HaleFx ( $23.05 )
Seat 4: gusofleisure ( $133.28 )
Seat 5: DivisnByZero ( $91.10 )
Seat 7: Luigi_Caffe ( $49.25 )
Seat 8: Svend_Bent ( $43.25 )
Seat 10: Bigj0819 ( $22.30 )
Seat 9: AndyKayy ( $70.55 )
Seat 6: IRaiseUFish ( $50 )
Svend_Bent posts small blind [$0.25].
AndyKayy posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AndyKayy [ Js 2h ]
Bigj0819 calls [$0.50].
famous50 calls [$0.50].
Jitsu12 calls [$0.50].
HaleFx folds.
gusofleisure calls [$0.50].
DivisnByZero folds.
Luigi_Caffe folds.
Svend_Bent calls [$0.25].
AndyKayy raises [$3.50].
Bigj0819 calls [$3.50].
famous50 folds.
Jitsu12 folds.
gusofleisure folds.
Svend_Bent folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Ac, Ad ]
AndyKayy bets [$7].
Bigj0819 folds.
AndyKayy shows [ Js, 2h ] a pair of aces.
AndyKayy wins $16.50 from the main pot with a pair of aces.

And I showed. They weren't happy.

AndyKayy shows [ Js, 2h ] a pair of aces.

Nice.

Next time, if you have big PP and Bigyo limps again, raise him $3.50 and type in chat "just for you, Bigyo, let's dance ", if he calls, pound him hard on flop you can even drop the hammer and push. He will call you down with any kind of hand, like QJ on KJx board

Originally Posted by Andy Kay

And I showed. They weren't happy.

I actually tried the same yesterday, but the guy *had* the ace. That sucked.

Maybe it's just me, but if I see a guy bluff with "any two" and then show it after everyone folds, I'm not thinking "what a donk!" but I'm thinking "he is probably gonna have it later, otherwise why on earth would he show?" If I see a showdown and then the guy turned out to really have raised/called with crap.. only then will I be thinking "ok, donk".

If I see a showdown and then the guy turned out to really have raised/called with crap.. only then will I be thinking "ok, donk".

That's why it's good to go for showdown if you hit the piece of the flop, think you are ahead and opponent is passive. You may try even to get some value against the draw and show it down if it misses. Showdown after has more "tilting power" than showing after winning by default.

Originally Posted by Vrax

That's why it's good to go for showdown if you hit the piece of the flop, think you are ahead and opponent is passive. You may try even to get some value against the draw and show it down if it misses. Showdown after has more "tilting power" than showing after winning by default.

Yep.. I'll think "donk" only about opponents who do not show their cards voluntarily but I get to see their crappy play in a showdown. Another, although rare, case is when a guy shows his crap hands.. and keeps doing it! Ofcourse this is so -EV it's not really worth it. Seeing a by-the-book player bluff once and then show, even on 20NL, isn't too uncommon.. and pretty transparant imho.

When I want to convince the room I'm a donk, a thing I am thinking about doing is, say you get AQ.. then raise 10BB. Everyone folds, then show. Now the more aware players will probably be thinking "lol this idiot raises his 'good hands' and also thinks AQ is so great?!" It's likely to give me action when I raise my AA the normal 4BB-5BB.

Not sure though, but this kind of behavior is what I see the REAL donks do (raise their "good hands" hard and then show) so I think it's better to emulate that, rather than using the more obvious "good player deception tricks"..


It's atleast a thing I've had some success with.. to play "real donk style", but reverse. Say I hit a set on the flop. I raise normal. Aware player calls with TP or two pair. Now I actually slow down in betting, and bet weak - typical donk style when they realize their bluff fails. He calls. Then by the river I think a while then raise over the pot.. again typical donk bluff-play when they have nothing. The aware players ALWAYS call this

Originally Posted by jackvance

When I want to convince the room I'm a donk, a thing I am thinking about doing is, say you get AQ.. then raise 10BB. Everyone folds, then show. Now the more aware players will probably be thinking "lol this idiot raises his 'good hands' and also thinks AQ is so great?!" It's likely to give me action when I raise my AA the normal 4BB-5BB.

If you set an image that you are donk by raising 10xBB with AQ and then showing, wouldn't you rather raise AA 10xBB again so that way an "aware" player will make a move against you?

FLOP SETS.

STACK PEOPLE.

TURN THE PAGE.

Originally Posted by chardrian

If you set an image that you are donk by raising 10xBB with AQ and then showing, wouldn't you rather raise AA 10xBB again so that way an "aware" player will make a move against you?

I would be shooting myself in the foot that way.. I just advertised, for deception purposes, that I'm raising my good hands big. So if I then keep doing it for real, that'd be silly. I will raise my AA the standard 4-5BB so that I will get my 1-2 callers and they will not put me on a top hand.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by chardrian

If you set an image that you are donk by raising 10xBB with AQ and then showing, wouldn't you rather raise AA 10xBB again so that way an "aware" player will make a move against you?

I would be shooting myself in the foot that way.. I just advertised, for deception purposes, that I'm raising my good hands big. So if I then keep doing it for real, that'd be silly. I will raise my AA the standard 4-5BB so that I will get my 1-2 callers and they will not put me on a top hand.

Tipping off your hands with different preflop raise amounts is silly.

At the stakes I play (.5/1), I open for 3.5, no matter whether I have AA, 66, AJ, or T8s.

Originally Posted by Renton

Tipping off your hands with different preflop raise amounts is silly.

At the stakes I play (.5/1), I open for 3.5, no matter whether I have AA, 66, AJ, or T8s.

I raise all my different hands 4-5BB. Whether AA or KJs. The once 10BB raise on AQ is simply, as was the point in this thread, an option I'm exploring to deceive my opponents into thinking I'm a donk, and to get more action from my real hands later.

FLOP SETS.

STACK PEOPLE.

TURN THE PAGE.

I really don't know what to think when you say something like this. You really want to send out the message that sethunting is all there is to poker?

i think 5x is too much for an openraise.

You would be surprised how well you can do when you are perceived as a solid player, as opposed to a donk. Intimidation goes a long way. Whenever I am the biggest stack at a table, my stack continues to grow, typically. People don't wanna play in a pot with you, so you steal like crazy. When people do play in a pot with you, its easy to misdirect them into believing they have a hand that beats you. I have stacked a lot of good 100nl players by using my tight image to catch them off guard with a hand that they wouldn't think I have since I play so tight. I make it a point to play with a drawing hand in position against such players, because i know if I hit my hand, I am gonna catchem off guard with it and take down a massive pot.

Think about it. You raise T8s on the CO and get a call from a supertight player in the BB. You automatically put him on QQ-AA and think he's trying to trap you. Flop comes 882 rainbow. He checks to you and you open push.

Who gets paid off with their trip 8's more here? Someone with a solid tagg image, or someone with a donk "any two cards" image.

Originally Posted by Renton

FLOP SETS.

STACK PEOPLE.

TURN THE PAGE.

If things were this easy....
Today was day 33 in break even days...
Got 3 sets,slowplayed one because the other 2 got folded around,and the third one got folded around aswell,but this time on the turn...
Got a fullhouse,got busted against higher fullhouse,my KK got cracked once again,i raise 6xbb on button,2 limpers call my raise,bet on the turn,one guy stays and shows A2o on river...
Just an average "break even" day.

Ok im vented.

Originally Posted by siknd

i think 5x is too much for an openraise.

If 4BB tends to get more than 2 callers, I'll go higher. I don't like my top hands to be in a large drawing-like pot.

I really don't know what to think when you say something like this. You really want to send out the message that sethunting is all there is to poker?

the reason he says this is because he is a multi-multi-tabler. this is the reason that a lot of people who are successful online struggle live.

If 4BB tends to get more than 2 callers, I'll go higher.

if im openraising, i want callers. a smaller raise will encourage re-raising. table texture issues aside, i think 3.5 is about right. do you vary your openraise by posn? i believe in increasing the raise in relation to position. ie, utg 2.5-3.5, progressing to say 4-5x button.

?

Originally Posted by Renton

You would be surprised how well you can do when you are perceived as a solid player, as opposed to a donk. Intimidation goes a long way. Whenever I am the biggest stack at a table, my stack continues to grow, typically. People don't wanna play in a pot with you, so you steal like crazy. When people do play in a pot with you, its easy to misdirect them into believing they have a hand that beats you. I have stacked a lot of good 100nl players by using my tight image to catch them off guard with a hand that they wouldn't think I have since I play so tight. I make it a point to play with a drawing hand in position against such players, because i know if I hit my hand, I am gonna catchem off guard with it and take down a massive pot.

Think about it. You raise T8s on the CO and get a call from a supertight player in the BB. You automatically put him on QQ-AA and think he's trying to trap you. Flop comes 882 rainbow. He checks to you and you open push.

Who gets paid off with their trip 8's more here? Someone with a solid tagg image, or someone with a donk "any two cards" image.

Yes there are many different strategies possible in poker. One successful strategy (yours) shouldn't necessarily other strategies are wrong.

I was just kidding.

But yes, if you are having trouble even breaking even at .25/.5 stakes, sethunting is a minimally profitable strategy.

EDIT: and I wasn't saying that the be like a donk strategy was bad. I was just saying that you being a tagg doesn't necessarily mean you don't get paid off on hands. See ilikeaces for proof. He played 14 percent of hands at low stake and made a ridiculous killing.

the reason he says this is because he is a multi-multi-tabler. this is the reason that a lot of people who are successful online struggle live.

This indeed explains a lot, thx.

Originally Posted by siknd

if im openraising, i want callers. a smaller raise will encourage re-raising. table texture issues aside, i think 3.5 is about right. do you vary your openraise by posn? i believe in increasing the raise in relation to position. ie, utg 2.5-3.5, progressing to say 4-5x button.

I want 1-2 callers, I don't like it when there are more. If you hit a messy flop, you really don't know where you are at then, some of them might have hit something, or be on a draw of sorts.

I don't really vary with position. (Note I play 6max, for how this may change things) I do however will go higher if there are more limpers before me, because as said I don't want all of them to call. So this does, in a way, makes my open-raises vary with position. If I'm on the CO for example, and the two people before me folded, or both limped, is a difference. But in general, the most determining factor for raise-height is how the table plays.

sethunting is a minimally profitable strategy.

...and straighthunting+occasional position steals against setfarmers. Time to rediscover the power of sooted connectors in late position.

maybe my terminology is wrong, but i consider an open-raise to be the first action in a hand. so, if you were raising limpers, that would be something different.

Originally Posted by siknd

maybe my terminology is wrong, but i consider an open-raise to be the first action in a hand. so, if you were raising limpers, that would be something different.

Oh I thought open raising meant you were the first to actually raise instead of call/fold, my bad. But the problem in 6max is.. there isn't really a middle position. You have UTG and UTG+1, and then immediately CO and button. It might be a leak, and I've been giving my starting play some thought lately, but I don't see the merit of raising more lateron with all folds before me in this scenario. The reason is that I want to get my 1-2 callers. If everyone folds to me on the button, and I'm standard gonna raise my normal hands harder than usual, there's a good chance I'm not getting any callers.

agree that six max is different than longhand. agree with what you are saying, but two considerations for a smaller EP raise:

1. raising UTG = you have less information, so a large raise with QQ is undersireable as you will be big trouble if you face a large reraise, and will chase a lot of the hands you have dominated. This is less of a problem on the button as you are aware that you almost certainly have the best hand, and will have position for the rest of the hand.

2. because of the tendancy for CO/ button to put in steal-raises (esp shorthand), you can get away with a larger raise because it will be respected less.

Originally Posted by siknd

1. raising UTG = you have less information, so a large raise with QQ is undersireable as you will be big trouble if you face a large reraise, and will chase a lot of the hands you have dominated. This is less of a problem on the button as you are aware that you almost certainly have the best hand, and will have position for the rest of the hand.

Yes I understand what you mean. But this risk is lower in 6max, 5 opponents as opposed to 9 in longhanded. I do have some problems in properly assessing and evaluating preflop play longhanded, as I recently picked up MTTs. Maybe it would be correct to assume that 6max UTG is like being MP2 on 10max with 4 folds in front of you?

I always like to base my preflop raises on the premise of "how many callers will I get if I raise X here now?" If too low, too many people might call and then it becomes what I call a "drawing pot", and I lose my edge in such a pot with my hand.. if too high then you fold out the weaker hands you want to call.

I like to stick to 4BB and I find that the table usually adjusts to this. More often than not, my first two or so 4BB raises get all folds. Then people realize this is my standard raise or something? And well, I get callers. If too many I'll cranck it up a notch to 5BB or 6BB. I might also go higher if I notice they'll call anyway with weaker hands. Might as well let them pay more for seeing a flop then, right? And if they keep folding to me, I should probably leave the table .. but in practice I find myself loosening my range until the table loosens up, so I can go back to normal.

Inbetween all these assessments I make, I haven't really found a personal use to "standard" vary my raises.. maybe a leak, I dunno.

2. because of the tendancy for CO/ button to put in steal-raises (esp shorthand), you can get away with a larger raise because it will be respected less.

Yes, this is why I don't usually go lower than 4BB with a good hand, even though I'm inclined to do so because I want callers.. I'm hoping I'm getting called by weaker hands who think I'm trying a steal.