How to play this table? 5 stations

My stats are covered because I don't want the topic to be derailed.

And this is the table:



Villains:
72/1
40/6
50/6
38/8
49/2

Pretty much slight variations of the same kind of station.
Super passive post-flop, calling with any draw and any pair, usually over-betting when they hit something big.

This was an extreme example, but most of my tables have 2-3 of these players.

Big money should be flowing from this kind of players, but I can't exploit them. And I fucking hate not being able to exploit them.

What I think is correct against these players:

- Widen up my opening range. Not going maniac, just opening a bit more hands. The garbage they limp with is unbelievable.
- Be ready to fold when aggro'ed by an usually passive station.

Bad stuff against these players:
- Bluffing.
- Trying to represent anything. 3bet pre and 3/4 bet on a QhJhJs flop, he calls with pocket 3s.



My biggest issues come from good hands not hitting very well on the flop.
Stuff like QK 3-betted pre hitting second pair on a draw-heavy flop.
Or pocket 9s with 1 or 2 overcards.

I know they keep calling with all sort of garbage, but I often find myself in uncomfortable spots, unable to get relevant info because they just keep c/calling.

So what do I know at this point?
If I hit a big hand, they will follow with all sort of garbage and donate big pots.
If I hit nothing, just fold.
Everything inbetween? I'm lost.

I know it's probably blasphemy, but is limping a bit more tolerable on this kind of table?
I'm not very thrilled about raising JQs 6x after 3 limpers only to get it called by both blinds and the CO and flopping A67.

get some reads on what each player is calling down with postflop. and how many streets. what do they do with draws? weak pairs? nut hands? etc. once you have this kind of information you can reaaaaaaaaaally start opening up and punishing them. isolate them and play as many pots in position as you can. look to steal pots from them with cbets and turn cbets because their ranges are so wide/weak. also, with appropriate reads you can start value betting them far more liberally and take advantage of them being calling stations.

if LOTS of pots are going multiway to the flop then your money is going to be coming more from flopping well and getting value (moreso than isoing a weak fish and stealing a pot from him with a cbet) so it would probably be good to tighten up a bit and look to play a stronger range, in position if possible, and just value bet like crazy. it doesn't matter if you iso QJ and get to A76 flop 4-handed. you're not trying to win every pot. you're trying to maximise your value when you can get some. it's perfectly fine to check/fold QJ on A76 when you are 4-handed to the flop on a table of calling stations.

Looks like a table where I`d start open limping a tonne as having initiative and attempting to take down pots pre has no benefit. Probably would still raise premiums and hands I wanted to get heads up with. Would go larger and larger sizing until I started to actually accomplish what I wanted to accomplish with getting pots heads up to the flop.

Postflop is super straight forward. Getting to the flop with the maximum amount of hands possible should be your goal with these players.

Missed the last bit that you were having trouble post. It depends on number of players you get to the flop with. Heads up 2nd or 3rd pair with nut kickers is going to be fine value bets for 2-3 streets v these guys. Anything better then 2nd or 3rd pair is obviously the nuts until they put in a raise themselves. Big draws multiway just build pots in position. OOP if you expect it to go multiway to the next few streets building pots with big draws is still good. IE A3hh on Jh9h6c or something along those lines.

Originally Posted by rpm

so it would probably be good to tighten up

This is crazy talk, when villains all have VPIP over 40 and are all super passive we can happily play the same number of hands they are especially when we are IP. Our top 40% though will consist of hands better suited for multiway pots then the A3o and K4o garbage they are playing.

yeah I'm probably tightening my raising range oop but I'll limp more hands like SC's, AsXs etc. Play lots of pots IP with iso raises (decent AX/KX hands) or limp with hands that get big value postflop.

I prob cut my cbetting down in general since they dont fold enough so bet your value hands hard.

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

This is crazy talk, when villains all have VPIP over 40 and are all super passive we can happily play the same number of hands they are especially when we are IP. Our top 40% though will consist of hands better suited for multiway pots then the A3o and K4o garbage they are playing.

personally yeah i'd be going crazy at this table. but i didn't know if it was wise to instruct OP (who i know has only just started playing poker remotely seriously) to open up his ranges and ramp up the aggression when he may not know too much about why he should be doing this. i noticed in your post you would incorporate limping into your strategy, which is something i'd never have thought of, so yeah i'm probably pretty far off here.

On the notion of limping more:
On tables where any PFR is going to get most of the limpers to call, the PFR loses equity in my experience. It does not achieve the primary goal of eliminating opponents. The secondary goal of getting my chips in when I have the best hand is almost moot. When I'm facing a 4 or 5 handed flop, it only serves to prematurely bloat the pot. On these tables, villains don't know what an overbet means, and they will call down when their busted flush draw turns into 3rd pair on the river. So getting the chips in early doesn't matter, 'cause they'll put them in anyway.
I still PFR my premium hands, but I'm willing to limp SC's, OSC's, S1G's, and S2G's (farming for straights), all Kxs and Axs (farming for flushes), and of course small PP (set farming). I (almost) never play A9o-, since they'll move or call all-in with any Ax hand that makes pr A's, and I want to out-kick them when I choose to call them down.
When I first started opening up like this, I made the mistake of changing my goals when I hit the flop w/ weak pair. I had to develop the discipline to say to myself, "I limped to catch a flush w/ A4s, and now my pr A's is not enough to continue w/ a 4 kicker," then check, and fold to anything but a min-bet.

@ MadMojo

good post

Thanks everyone for the input.

Mojo, your reply pretty much nails my vague idea of a strategy vs these player, explaining it with straightforward, fish-proof concepts.
Glad I wasn't too far off and thanks for the reply.

@rpm: yes, basic stuff for now. Not worth going creative at this point, at the micros vs this kind of players.
Mostly because I don't have the skills yet.

Originally Posted by Shizu

basic stuff for now. Not worth going creative at this point, at the micros vs this kind of players.
Mostly because I don't have the skills yet.

At some point, you have to go for it. If you have solid bankroll management, this is the perfect time to open up the range, limp a bit more and try to outplay them. You know enough to guess most of the right moves, and you'll only gain good experience trying to exploit horrible players.

Thin
Value
Bet

i like this game and i have an instructor that practice me that how to play on thi table
i like this game its interesting and charm able
next time i'll come with my instructor to say you that how it was played

Originally Posted by steavejohn1994

i like this game and i have an instructor that practice me that how to play on thi table
i like this game its interesting and charm able
next time i'll come with my instructor to say you that how it was played

Wins.