How to play against bad players?

Hi all

I do prettywell online on the low limit tournments and sit and goes. Recently I have been playing live with a regular group of 6 or 7 people. We all put in 20$ and winner takes all. four of the players are utterly horrible. I mean raise 4 times bb from 1st position with K10. The others no a little more, but are not much better. I have tried different styles from playing really tight hopeing to really catch someone to Farha loose. Both way have not worked.

Basically if I play tight and hit something when I bet I get two callers and my AKs with flop K, junk, junk will lose to either a two pair or flush. If I play loose I can't bluff it won't work. The best I have done is just don't get a alot of chips involed and if I face a lot of action just fold. This kinda works I win alot of small pots, but towards the end there is someone with a much bigger stack then me. Any thoughts on how to play these types of players?

Thanks,

Jutah

some days it is not worth trying to beat them.....other days u feel like the poker gods are only on your side...in an 8 way home tourney...I'd try for some pots when the blinds are cheap..nothing fancy just look for cheap & punch it when u have the best of it..top pr best draw...or a set.nut flush or str8...If u get way out ahead u can coast or be a raisin fool...I figure with the winner take all pay structur u need to keep the heat on to win this game...I'd be very reluctant to pay any of these players off without the best possible hands early in the tournament...Look at the board & say to yourself I would not call that raise preflop w Q 9 off frm the SB..but old numb nuts has made worse plays..If it looks like a kooky str8 It most likely is so be careful with trips..With position (&frm the blinds)u should bring in some junk hands..6 7 off down to the 3 5 ...low end & middle str8s can get get paid off...be creative when it is cheap enough...but protect your stack for the big hands u get to bust people out with...Wait out as long as u can & make as few & cheap mistakes as possible...I'm running decent in the 6 dollar MTT tournies...they pay out top 5 but 3rd & higher is the real money..Practice makes perfect & some good cards help..Learn to be patiet & temper your NO limit Aggression...mike in ct

Thanks Mike,

It is just so frustrating to know you are by far the best player at the table and lose with a strong top pair to someone who has been calling your raises with a 62 and catching two pair. And then they say after then win, as your asking them how in the world did you call that all the raises with 62, they say I thought you were bluffing . Eventhough I had not bluffed a pot all night, b\c I learned that was useless a few weeks ago.

Thanks,

Jutah

If they're really bad, just see a lot of cheap flops and overbet if you hit. Only raise JJ+/AK preflop. Try it & pwn them.

Read all of Aokronglys posts and follow his advice. For beating bad players its golden.

Originally Posted by jutah

...asking them how in the world did you call that all the raises with 62, they say I thought you were bluffing . Eventhough I had not bluffed a pot all night, b\c I learned that was useless a few weeks ago.

Once you figure that bit out you wont lose IMO. You might bet a TPTK that ends up losingto 2 pair but you wont lose ut stack. by far the most often will be when you bet TPTK and someone with MP calls hoping for 2 pair (and believe me he will hit it more than he deserves).

Originally Posted by jutah

And then they say after then win, as your asking them how in the world did you call that all the raises with 62, they say I thought you were bluffing

First of all stop asking them this type of question, it's rude. These guys probably don't care that they suck. They're just playing for fun and if you keep criticizing their play, you may find that they don't want to play against you anymore. Second of all don't expect to beat them every time. Bad players have to win sometimes too, or else they wouldn't play and there'd be no one for the good players to take money from.

How to beat them depends a lot on what type of bad player they are. The typical bad player is extremely passive, and underbets all of his good hands. Against these guys, see lots of flops with hands that have potential and when you make a good hand, make big value bets. But, it sounds like some of the guys you're playing, are way too aggressive with some pretty bad hands. You'll have to adjust to them by coming over the top of them with more hands than you normally would. Against bad aggressive players, you pretty much have to get good cards or you won't win.

You should really be using the same thought process against bad players as you use against good players, figure out what your opponent's tendencies are and come up with a strategy that exploits them.

I think the more important question to resolve first is, is this a beatable game for you? Considering this is winner takes all it doesn't matter if there are four players worse than you if there is one that is better.

I understand the frustration very well though since I play with a bunch a jackasses a few times a week. My 5x BB raises will get called by 4-5 players. Aces and Kings are constantly getting cracked like eggs. I get to see the most implausible scenarios unfold on a nightly basis and witness so many runner-runner suckouts I fell like I'm in a marathon.

One thing I've learned is to look for the most uncoordinated flops possible since you can generally expect a couple of your opponents to have suited or near touching cards. I can go with TPTK in this situation, however if there are two to a flush or two cards with straight potential I tend to back off since I often have 4-5 players to deal with; so even if I'm ahead there is little I can do to knock anyone out of the pot nor protect my hand against the draws.

The other thing I'm looking for are flops that coordinate well with my cards and have strong redraw potential. Pairs with straight draws or flush draws are hands I will look to push with. OESD + flush draws I'll go with if getting the odds.

Pay attention to your opponents holdings and betting patterns especially when they are pushing. I've noticed that really poor players will give you info for free when they push a pot and no one calls.

Lastly, don't let the results discourage you from doing what is correct. Don't stop raising with premium hands because they keep getting cracked. Prevent bad habits that are result orientated from affecting your play because you still need to carry your game to other tables with other players. Against bad players play simple staright forward poker.

Wow... This post is me about 6 months ago.
One thing no one mentioned yet: tells. Players that are "just having fun" have so many tells it's unbelievable. Watch their hands, watch what they look at after they see the flop, watch which color chips they go for first, watch everything. Check out anything by Mike Caro, that stuff is gold in these loose home games.

Btw, in these ultra-amateur games, if the blinds aren't absolutely huge, you might be able to get about an 80% win rate if you can read everyone in the game well, but don't do it. I have been involved in games that fell apart because one or two guys left with the money every week. Let the fish have it every once in a while. If you've won a few weeks straight, play like they do for a little while, pay them off when you know they have a hand. In the long run, it's +EV.

Value-bet more
Bluff and semi-bluff less

And by the way... play tight. trying to play like farha will only make your game suffer. If our having a hard time trying to win then dont make almost every decision on every street harder.

Hi,

I know exactly what you're talking about.

I play in a very similar weekly live game. I don't make a killing, but I am profitable. Some of the players I play with are decent, but many are horrendous. The tables are very loose and very aggressive. Here are my strategies :

1. Never slow play preflop ! In these games, you have no idea what you're up against - you really have to try to at least thin the field.

2. Play very tight early - fold A-Q in early pos - etc. I pretty much only play A-K or pocket pairs. I might limp in late with suited connectors or A-Q or K-Q - but they are gone unless I hit the flop very well. My rationale for this is that most hands get way out of control, with unbeleivably bad cards - and overbetting - by the time you play 3 hands, if they dont go well, you can be down 1000 chips !!! My only downfall is that I like to play pocket Pairs - looking for a set - I even call raises with them - which I'm beginning to re-evaluate. One game I got pokcet 7s followed by pocket 10s right at the beginning of a game - next thing I know I only have half my stack left All I need is one nice hand and I can double or triple up at this stage !

3. When my M falls below 20, I start to loosen up - usually a couple of players are out by this time and you can pick up the odd pot - but usually I'm in trouble at these games unless I get a nice hand. I'm afraid I can't offer much advice here.

4. Once the blinds get above 100/200, unless I have a huge chip lead, raising 3 or 4 xthe BB is futile in these games. I have had my chip lead broken down in the space of 3 hands having my raises called with crap by several players and losing each one ! Some players will call you with half of their remaining chips with unsuited connectors or any suited cards. This can be good, but when two or more players do this you can lose alot of your chips. I admit that it's not great poker, but from here on out, I just raise all-in - it gets a little more respect, and you don't have to worry about a crazy bluff - you know you are probably ahead , so you either win or lose . After losing so many times in this situation - I'm just thankful to get the blinds.

5. I'm not very good with tells and even if I were - how can it help you when a player truly beleives that J-2 s is a great starting hand ? What I do, however, is pay attention to player styles - and use that information to my advantage - I know who the calling stations are, who bluffs, who the maniacs are and who are solid. There are one or two players who are very aggressive when they are in the pot - I really think ahead if I'm in with them - you can double up but you can also lose alot of chips. These simple reads can save or gain bets here and there .

Martin