How much would you wager on KK preflop?

Let's say you sit in BB with KK, someone raises in front of you, you re-raise, he pushes.
Opponent seems to be a good, tight player.
Is this a call/fold when you have 50bb's? 100bb's? 200bb's?

folding KK PF 50bb's deep should literally be like one in a million. that's why tourney players like never fold KK PF and rarely fold QQ (whereas folding QQ PF in cash games happens quite a bit).

100bb you should usually be playing for stacks, but i think you can think of this one on your own. c'mon now.

200bb we would need HH's

It will really help your game worrying about the hand that wins like 75% and is the second biggest winner in everyone's databases. the hand that is dealt 1:220 really is not your biggest worry. The solution is in the details.

yeah ps: does this thread purposefully come right after daven and griffey just went bollistic. 'cause you manged to find the perfect question that conveniently hits a nerve for BOTH of them

I think it's more dependent on reads. Although it doesn't happen often, I have gotten reads on people before that they ONLY have Aces or Kings and if that's the case with someone, I probably would be reluctant to complete my small blind with Kings, let alone my stack no matter how deep it might be knowing I'm going for a chop or 4 cards to a flush BEST CASE. On the other hand, some players are so loose and aggressive and bad that I'd probably put any amount all-in with them. By and large though, on average at most stakes, if you can get KK all-in pre-flop, it's a good move because there's only one hand and 6 combinations to make that hand to worry about and you're a huge favorite over the other hundreds of hands and thousands of ways to make those hands.

I'd just limp in and try to set mine KK

UTG pretty nitty, SB villain 10-8 with 0.8% 3-bet over 200 hands.
My image loose and active.
The answer to your question, ffs, it depends.
Not an important spot, getting all in <120bb deep is never a bad mistake. If you're deep and don't know, then leave the table.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($49.50)
BB ($21)
UTG ($51)
UTG+1 ($32.75)
MP1 ($31.50)
MP2 ($91.65)
CO ($55.05)
Hero (Button) ($70.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
UTG bets $2, 3 folds, CO calls $2, Hero raises to $8.75, SB raises to $19, 3 folds, Hero raises to $70.05 (All-In), SB calls $30.50 (All-In)

Flop: ($103.50) Q, 2, 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($103.50) A (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($103.50) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $103.50 | Rake: $3

Results:
Hero had K, K (three of a kind, Kings).
SB had Q, Q (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $100.50

Yes, I guess its kind of a silly question in the first place.
I should probably play short stack poker in the cashgames, as it would be more similar to tourney poker, and I dont have to make desicions like this one.

alternatively , you could read the digest , particpate in the forums, read the hand history threads, begin to understand how to apply what you learn in which situations and learn how to play poker deep stacked. Or just omit the work and wonder why you aren't progressing through the stakes very quickly , if at all

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'd just limp in and try to set mine KK

If that's not ridiculously -EV I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by jennizzen

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'd just limp in and try to set mine KK

If that's not ridiculously -EV I don't know what is.

it isn't ridiculously -EV...so i guess you don't know what is.

that being said it, it's still stupid to do.

and THAT being said, muzzard was being sarcastic

Originally Posted by surviva316

Originally Posted by jennizzen

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'd just limp in and try to set mine KK

If that's not ridiculously -EV I don't know what is.

it isn't ridiculously -EV...so i guess you don't know what is.

that being said it, it's still stupid to do.

and THAT being said, muzzard was being sarcastic

Ah...forum sarcasm..not always the most obvious...

Originally Posted by only_bridge

I should probably play short stack poker in the cashgames, as it would be more similar to tourney poker, and I dont have to make desicions like this one.

this is wrong. To be a successful shortstacker involves consideration of far different dynamics than in tourney/sng play. Also, at low stakes (<$200nl) it is hard to beat the rake. Especially cos there are a bunch of players who are learning or have learnt to beat mediocre and bad shortstackers, and are comfortable getting it in on flips. I've probably been in pre-flop allin situations with shortstacks >100 times today. And probably won about half. And guess what, a shortstack who only wins half his flips is going to lose a lot of money. And i like shortstacks to lose money.

i think its an ok question because it reminds me of a recent situation..

me: kk
some other guy preflop bet from early pos
me: 3bet
other guy: all in
my: "looking at this guys tightness and ultra fast all in this stinks to high hell of AA, but i have KK so ill give it a crack" call
other guy wins with AA

im only laying down KK in this situation if something stinks that bad again. and even then im tempted to call

<---5nl nitnoob tho

Originally Posted by daven

Originally Posted by only_bridge

I should probably play short stack poker in the cashgames, as it would be more similar to tourney poker, and I dont have to make desicions like this one.

this is wrong. To be a successful shortstacker involves consideration of far different dynamics than in tourney/sng play. Also, at low stakes (<$200nl) it is hard to beat the rake. Especially cos there are a bunch of players who are learning or have learnt to beat mediocre and bad shortstackers, and are comfortable getting it in on flips. I've probably been in pre-flop allin situations with shortstacks >100 times today. And probably won about half. And guess what, a shortstack who only wins half his flips is going to lose a lot of money. And i like shortstacks to lose money.

Yes, you are right about the rake, but I have played shortstack quite a lot of times, (everything is relative), and always managed to crush the rake. Its so easy, you just sit back until you get QQ+ and then raise. Someone always dbl you up.

I watched two pro's play in a hu tourney, and the bidding went raise to 60, re-raise 260, shove 3000, call.
The guy (professional) that shoved 150bb's had A9. After that I felt a little bit better about my all-in with KK.

Originally Posted by mbiz

i think its an ok question because it reminds me of a recent situation..

me: kk
some other guy preflop bet from early pos
me: 3bet
other guy: all in
my: "looking at this guys tightness and ultra fast all in this stinks to high hell of AA, but i have KK so ill give it a crack" call
other guy wins with AA

im only laying down KK in this situation if something stinks that bad again. and even then im tempted to call

<---5nl nitnoob tho

never, never lay down KK preflop at $5nl. Kthanx.

Originally Posted by jennizzen

Originally Posted by surviva316

Originally Posted by jennizzen

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'd just limp in and try to set mine KK

If that's not ridiculously -EV I don't know what is.

it isn't ridiculously -EV...so i guess you don't know what is.

that being said it, it's still stupid to do.

and THAT being said, muzzard was being sarcastic

Ah...forum sarcasm..not always the most obvious...

If assuming he was being serious is not ridiculous -EV I don't know what is

It depends on the stakes whether I go all in. KK is only worth a wager of about $89, which means as of 100NL you shouldn't be going all in preflop.

Originally Posted by killerkebab

It depends on the stakes whether I go all in. KK is only worth a wager of about $89, which means as of 100NL you shouldn't be going all in preflop.

this. just saw this hand recently, brilliant lay down for previously stated reasons.

PokerStars Game #24205545215: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2009/01/23 18:52:04 ET
Table 'Ibarruri' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($1913 in chips)
Seat 2: Gith ($2602 in chips)
Seat 3: hajmat ($2210 in chips)
Seat 4: fusion2 ($1451 in chips)
Seat 5: Kysus ($1197 in chips)
Seat 6: redargoe ($1355 in chips)
fusion2: posts small blind $5
Kysus: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Kh Kd ]
redargoe: folds
heybude: raises $20 to $30
Gith: raises $60 to $90
hajmat: folds
fusion2: folds
Kysus: folds
heybude: folds

that being said, i'm gonna stop joining in on the "hey let's bump the worst thread ever" party

Originally Posted by surviva316

PokerStars Game #24205545215: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2009/01/23 18:52:04 ET
Table 'Ibarruri' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($1913 in chips)
Seat 2: Gith ($2602 in chips)
Seat 3: hajmat ($2210 in chips)
Seat 4: fusion2 ($1451 in chips)
Seat 5: Kysus ($1197 in chips)
Seat 6: redargoe ($1355 in chips)
fusion2: posts small blind $5
Kysus: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [6h 8h]
redargoe: folds
heybude: raises $20 to $30
Gith: raises $60 to $90
hajmat: folds
fusion2: folds
Kysus: folds
heybude: folds

I don't understand the relevance? Don't try to ninja edit the hand to KK.

On a serious note, just bet/raise/all-in KK alot. Unless you're vs the tightest of nits who only ever shovel AA. If they have KK/QQ/AK and sometimes other stuff in their range too then obv you have to call it off/shovel.

Personally with hands like AA or KK im an all in preflop if i get no action then oh well better than taking a bad beat

I have folded KK preflop twice in just under 2.5 million hands.

Just to give you an idea of how rarely you should make that play.

This thread is coming dangerously close to being locked for shear stupidity.

Originally Posted by killerkebab

It depends on the stakes whether I go all in. KK is only worth a wager of about $89, which means as of 100NL you shouldn't be going all in preflop.

lol winnar

im going to buy a cat and name him schrody. then i will buy him a box and will have many nerdy conversations with whomever becomes curious.

In a hand one time...

Me and another player each had 200bb. I had AA, we raised back and forth, and I ended up 5bet shoving, he thought about it a while. I was sure he had KK, and I was wondering if a fold with KK here was possible. But he called.

Biggest reason was the table was extremely fishy (hence the 200bb stacks), we were both playing a tight range, and generally we had been avoiding each other (easier money to be had at the table).

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

This thread is coming dangerously close to being locked for shear stupidity.

I was just about to come in here and request that it be locked.

It's really disappointing to come into the BC and constantly see this as the only thred with replies

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

This thread is coming dangerously close to being locked for shear stupidity.

I was just about to come in here and request that it be locked.

It's really disappointing to come into the BC and constantly see this as the only thred with replies

I agree.. And I think I actually should have locked it sooner.