How many ppl use PT?

On avg. @ any given 50nl-100nl fr cash table on Stars, how many ppl do you think are using pt?

No offense, but this is a dumb question to pose on this forum. Most people here use PT, but most people who play poker don't use forums. So most people don't use PT.

It's not that dumb a question, I don't think. I'd be intrigued to know what proportion of FTRers don't use it or PO (and at what stakes) and I'd definitely like to know if anyone has any thoughts or even stats on how common these programs are as a whole.

I doubt most people in the stars 100NL game use PT. Most people on FTR probably do though.

i voted yes, but i use PO.

A guy I work with plays at Stars at 100NL with a $500 bankroll

He didn't know what I was talking about when I asked him about Poker Tracker.

I've always wondered myself if the 8 tabling nits at 50nl use PT/hud.

No I don't. I usually 4-table 25NL. Can someone answer me: at my microlimt stake is it worth the money buying PT or some other software?

I bought it when I was still playing $10NL.

I think it pays for itself easy. Just as an educational tool alone to review your game. If you can learn enough to win two buyins at $25 NL, you've paid for it.

I use it,@10NL. I like to go under summary, and check out the biggest losers, then try to find them at the table and sit with them.
I also like to check my HH's and see what cards I play that are losing me $$$.

I also like PAHud. The best feature I like about that is , it shows the mucked hands almost effortlessly, and I can also check and see how often people fold to C-bets which helps out alot, esp when my AK didn't connect with anything.

Originally Posted by holdin2

I think it pays for itself easy. Just as an educational tool alone to review your game. If you can learn enough to win two buyins at $25 NL, you've paid for it.

QFanawfullotofT

I don't use it for reads during a game but I like it to keep track of stuff.

The real question is - how do you counter people using PT/huds? Just mix up your play and let them overread.

I do think it's important to keep track of your own PT stats because people might be using them... it would kinda bad to think that you were "Taggy" when you actually ran like 40/20! So you would be c-betting assuming your image would get you folds, when it's actually getting you calls.

Does anything think it makes sense to keep stats kind of neutral? I think I run (50NL FR) at 25/13/3... I don't think that gives up very much information - and when you couple with 80-20 and 50-50 random moves, I am happy to play against HUDders.

This is actually not that far from the "field" which (by my stats) runs at like 25/5/1... so I am playing the same number of hands as most people, but more aggr0 (and hopefully in better position, and better post-flop)

Originally Posted by bbqsquirrel

No I don't. I usually 4-table 25NL. Can someone answer me: at my microlimt stake is it worth the money buying PT or some other software?

You may be the lone man in the FTR feild at $25NL that is multitabling without it. I can get the argument's for not using a Hud, but not PT. I bought it at $5NL on stars when I thought it would help me move to $10NL after grinding for weeks and making two deposits. Damn near half my roll at the time. With it and hud, I was at $10NL in a week.

It's definitely worth it. You can see leaks in your game right away.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Originally Posted by bbqsquirrel

No I don't. I usually 4-table 25NL. Can someone answer me: at my microlimt stake is it worth the money buying PT or some other software?

You may be the lone man in the FTR feild at $25NL that is multitabling without it. I can get the argument's for not using a Hud, but not PT. I bought it at $5NL on stars when I thought it would help me move to $10NL after grinding for weeks and making two deposits. Damn near half my roll at the time. With it and hud, I was at $10NL in a week.

I made almost $800 the past month at NL25 so I think I am doing okay. But I admit there are multiple spots when knowledge on opponents would allow me make a better decision, like making much bigger value bets, or identifying when to bluff or not bluff.

Now that I know people playing 5NL and 10NL are using softwares, I might as well upgrade myself. But a sticky wicket is that I play on both my home PC and work PC, and I don't know whether I can use the same registration code twice (I don't think so).

yes, u can use it on 2 computers

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i voted no, cuz i use PO.

Originally Posted by bbqsquirrel

But a sticky wicket is that I play on both my home PC and work PC, and I don't know whether I can use the same registration code twice (I don't think so).

You can have PT on up to two different computers, maybe even more. Just e-mail Poker Tracker customer service and they'll send you a new registration code for your new computer ASAP.

I'm on my third registration code. One for my home computer and second for my laptop (my laptop got wiped a few months ago).

almost all the regulars use it, and yes even at NL100.

I play on bodog where pt is not compatable.

Originally Posted by Scrimmage

A guy I work with plays at Stars at 100NL with a $500 bankroll

He didn't know what I was talking about when I asked him about Poker Tracker.

I would think this is rather common...most losing players don't use BR management

Originally Posted by DonkDonk

I play on bodog where pt is not compatable.

lol @ your videos on youtube

btw it is compatible if you purchase DogWatch

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0IQntWbGTA8

my favorite

I finally got my PT set up last night. Boy, is it slow or what, especially when I was importing HH files. Is it possible for me to adjust some software settings so that I can speed it up?

I only finished importing HH for the most recent month or so. I have 14k hands at NL/PL25 and another 2 or 3k combined at NL50. Does that mean I played a lot the past month?

I was always curious about my stats. They turned out to be 28/9 @ NL25 (and a similar 26/9 @ NL50). % money won @ SD was around 55%. AF was 1 overall and 3.5 postflop. Don't really know what these stats mean though.

My win rate at 25NL was 3.3BB/100 -- again I am not sure what it means (how good it is).

My biggest winner is AA (surprise) @ >6BB per hand, followed by QQ (only ~>2BB per hand). KK is surprisingly lagging behind.

My pocket pairs also fare well, as 44 and 55 are in my top 10 in terms of BB/hour. JJ is an exception and is a disaster of a hand -- the worst hand -- for me.

I am able to find a leak in my game: SC and SG are also costing me huge money. T9s is a major exception and is in the top 10 on my win list, T8s is a steady winner and 86s won me a few huge pots, but everything else is down at the bottom. I believe I am calling raises with these hands way too often, even when it's heads-up, in or out of position. At my level people's PFR too often means a big pair, and catching one pair on a rag board often isn't good enough.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=4946669

Now try this.

Wow good stuff. Thank you very much.

I used to. Then I reformatted my computer. Bye bye pt.

Trainer, thanks for the awesome link. Hadn't understood all the stats until now.

Ensign, I'm sure the PT guys will help you re-authorize. You do get it on 2 machines.

A while ago my hard drive crashed and I lost everything on it, including poker tracker. I just emailed poker tracker support and told them what happened, and they sent me a new code, no hassle. I didn't have to supply them with any old registration info or anything, I just gave them my name.

I used to use it, but it doesn't really do much for me. I see ppl who freak out and think they have to change their whole game cuz their w/r has dropped the last 10k hands and just laugh. You have to get in a TON of hands for the individual hand stats to mean anything, and I can tell on my own if I'm a winner after 20k hands. I'd much rather use it to see what OTHER ppl play like. After you get like 2k hands with someone you can pretty much say what their PF raising range is (granted they haven't changed their style), and how they play stuff like missed overs and pp's.

1. I played losing poker for 3-6months without PT and FTR.
2. I found FTR, bought PT and became a marginal winner for 3months.
3. I discovered Easy-t and eeeee who made me a roll on bonus whoring (i also discovered casino whoring)
4. I start playing limit holdem and buy a HUD for the first time after reading a number of good online limit players saying its probably better off.
5. I use HUD successfully playing limit holdem winning quite well, i try to use it at NL and suck horribly, killing my bbs/100 rate and actually forcing me to take a month off from poker to reevaluate my game.
6. Fnord makes a bonch of good posts and i relaise that reads > HUD.
7. I built a big bankroll after variance showed me some love.

In short:
PT is worth the investment (i assume PO is too, i have not used it)
I remain a *hater* of HUDs playing NL holdem (but not limit) as numbers do not > reads, even if your opponent is a dope.

Edit: when my comp crashed i havent relaoded PT because i have enough knowledge now to understand when i played a hand wrong. Sometimes though, i do still get pwned by a good player, and thats when i learn something.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=4946669

Now try this.

You are a god for posting this. That post was pure gold. Thanks a lot.

I like PT just for the analysis it allows me to do of my game. For instance after 5000 hands at 20NL (I know, not a lot yet) I realize that I need to work on my postflop aggression. It is also interesting to review hands, which is a pain imo on the prima software.

squirrel,

how many hands you must play to win $800 in a month at a 25 NL table w/ only a 3.3 BB/100 rate? thats like 48,000 hands. only Lukie does that.

I bought PT pretty much exclusively to let me analyse my game and find leaks. It means that I have all my session, BR and hand details in the same place that I can get to from anywhere, basically making it the most convenient thing for me to use.

HUDs are another matter. I use GT+, but probably not really the way that it is intended. Sure it gives me an easy way to work out if a person is _likely_ to be telling the truth when the raise pre-flop with a pfr of < 5%, but reads are equally important. Sometimes PT is wrong, sometimes I am wrong. I think that part of my game is improving though.

PT had helped me spot a couple of big leaks though, mainly with KQs & o and AK. They lose me money and that means I am overplaying them. Now that I know this (and I appreciate that I only have a 6k sample size), I cxan work on how and when to play them properly. This will hopefully increase my BB/100 past the 15.5 it's at now.

I'm using PO, should I vote yes or no?

The best use for PT, IMO, is for table selection. You can't tell too much about most opponents from a couple of dozen hands, but it is pretty easy to spot players at the extremes. For example, a guy limping 7 out of 10 hands and never raising is an easy target. You can also spot the nits and the maniacs after a couple of dozen hands.

The biggest leak that most players have, IMO, is sitting at lukewarm or worse tables. The opportunity cost is pretty big when you consider that you are trading blinds with a bunch of TAg's while there is a maniac on the next table trying to give his money away.

When sitting at a new table, there are some certain numbers that stand out in the first orbit or two. A guy playing 65/5 or more is going to play alot of hands no matter how small the sample. If it's a little rush. you will be seeing the cards to know. If a guy is 4/1 after orbit 2, he's maybe on a cold deck. But he's never going to open up and play just anything either.

Yes they are the extreams, but when sitting at a new table, I would think these are the only players to avoid or attack, while playing an early, tight ABC type game, until the table becomes more clear.

Originally Posted by Chopper

squirrel,

how many hands you must play to win $800 in a month at a 25 NL table w/ only a 3.3 BB/100 rate? thats like 48,000 hands. only Lukie does that.

I won $800 the past month, but my 3.3BB/100 rate also include games up to September when I was just slightly in the green.

PT is really useful for

1) opponent analysis. For example, last night I was holding JJ in SB and called a 5x raise by the button. 4-way flop of 972, checked to button who bet pot (20x). I looked him up and noticed that he has a PFR% of 0% over 50 hands. I folded my JJ.

2) helping me improving my VPIP. In the past it was way too high (30/10). Last night I tried to rectify that problem, and at the end I was running 19/10 at my winningest table (I tripled up) and 18/6 where I ended up having 2.5 buy-ins. I played much fewer suited connectors and suited Aces, both of which have been losers for me. Everything turned out well.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

When sitting at a new table, there are some certain numbers that stand out in the first orbit or two. A guy playing 65/5 or more is going to play alot of hands no matter how small the sample. If it's a little rush. you will be seeing the cards to know. If a guy is 4/1 after orbit 2, he's maybe on a cold deck. But he's never going to open up and play just anything either.

Yes they are the extreams, but when sitting at a new table, I would think these are the only players to avoid or attack, while playing an early, tight ABC type game, until the table becomes more clear.

You've got the wrong idea.

1) Log on to FullTilt.
2) Open every table at the limit you want to play.
3) Start importing hands with PT.
4) Do something for 30 minutes or so.
5) Voila, instant table selection.

There are tools that make this data mining even easier.

actually, that is what I do. But I find as soon as aI sit at a table with 45%VP$P or certain stats, my game changes that. Suddenly the pot sizes increase, the VP$P changes. Sometimes numbers change for the better, sometimes not. I do that to get stats on players before I sit, and do use the datamining to help select. But most players to your left and right will have to adjust or move. Also, alot of times, stats like pot size, change as soon as someone is busted and leaves. It's typically the loser of some big pot battles that has busted and opened the seat for you.

Most sites don't let you datamine. In Tourneys and S&G's there is little history at lower stakes. So it will vary, how you decide what to plauy and who to play with.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

actually, that is what I do. But I find as soon as aI sit at a table with 45%VP$P or certain stats, my game changes that. Suddenly the pot sizes increase, the VP$P changes. Sometimes numbers change for the better, sometimes not. I do that to get stats on players before I sit, and do use the datamining to help select. But most players to your left and right will have to adjust or move.

You are not looking for a table with certain characteristics, you are looking for exploitable players. For example, a 6 max table with one 60/2 and four 20/12 players would give a lowish table VPIP (28% I think), but if you can sit to the immediate left of the 60/2 guy, you've found yourself a gold mine. It's irrelevant if the table VPIP or pot size changes, so long as your target continues to limp weak hands.

Similarly, it can help you avoid giving up position to players that will cause you trouble.

It can help you decide who to call down, who to play back at, etc.

Sure, there is the possibility that your opponents might adjust to your game, but most players are surprisingly formulaic and predictable in their style.

BTW, I routinely find bad players at all the limits I play, from 1/2 NL to 5/10 NL (though admittedly fewer at the higher stakes). Finding one such player more than pays for the cost of PT.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Most sites don't let you datamine. In Tourneys and S&G's there is little history at lower stakes. So it will vary, how you decide what to plauy and who to play with.

Tourneys and SnG's are irrelevant to my OP, since you cannot table or seat select.

The fact that there are sites that let you datamine is enough to justify the cost of PT.

Also, it's not like the tool is without use on sites you can't datamine. The fact that it isn't perfect doesn't in any way diminish the areas where the tool does have use.

There are dozens of valuable ways to use PT. I was merely highlighting what I feel is the most immediate return on your investment.

Originally Posted by koolmoe

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

actually, that is what I do. But I find as soon as aI sit at a table with 45%VP$P or certain stats, my game changes that. Suddenly the pot sizes increase, the VP$P changes. Sometimes numbers change for the better, sometimes not. I do that to get stats on players before I sit, and do use the datamining to help select. But most players to your left and right will have to adjust or move.

You are not looking for a table with certain characteristics, you are looking for exploitable players. For example, a 6 max table with one 60/2 and four 20/12 players would give a lowish table VPIP (28% I think), but if you can sit to the immediate left of the 60/2 guy, you've found yourself a gold mine. It's irrelevant if the table VPIP or pot size changes, so long as your target continues to limp weak hands.

The problem here is that you now have 4 Tags to your left!

My biggest issue with table selection is that, uh, I don't know how to do it. Pretty much every table selection post has been about exploiting tables with high VPs and larger-than-average pots. But I tend to to best on tight/weak tables - if I can't be the aggressor at a table it takes away far too much of my game. Any advice?

This has been beat to death with no answers i think. Fnord had some excellent points in a thread. But your right in the VP$P and pot sises. First off, I have had completly different stats than the ones in the lobby at both stars and Full tilt. What is the criteria for their stats? Is it last 5 hands, last 10, last 50? You really won't know the stats until you actually sit and play at the table. I think alot, if not most, will control more action at the tables they play, so yea it's more about the players at the table. A problem I have with being in the micro stakes, up to and including $25NL, there are no regulars. Yea there are players with 400 + hands, but nobody with 1K hands and up. the players are changing constantly. Moving up, busting out or switching sites. I basically play 6 tables (now 8) and if the table isn't working out, I don't like somebodys position or their seems to be an absence of donators, I move. I have no particular stats to look for, or fish, becasue at $25NL and under, fish don't last.

Originally Posted by biondino

The problem here is that you now have 4 Tags to your left!

Not a problem as they will fold to most of your raises. The vast majority of your hands should be played against the loose player to your right. If this is not the case, you need to reevaluate your strategy.

Originally Posted by biondino

My biggest issue with table selection is that, uh, I don't know how to do it. Pretty much every table selection post has been about exploiting tables with high VPs and larger-than-average pots. But I tend to to best on tight/weak tables - if I can't be the aggressor at a table it takes away far too much of my game. Any advice?

Fnord made a great post in one of the limit forums about seat selection (titled "The most -EV thing I'll ever post" or some such). A lot of the same concepts apply in NL, although there are some things you have to watch out for. Also, it's not as critical to have immediate position on your target if the players in between are tight or easily squeezed. You do have to be careful about being exploited by the solid players behind you, though. A multitabling TAg isn't going to take a lot of creative shots at you, so they are good candidates for the seats to your left.