How do I beat loose players?

I play no limit Texas Hold'em in a friendly home game with a bunch of loose players. Most of the people around the table will play any hand and don't really think of the odds. It's very difficult to tell what anyone has because they could of went in with a 10-7 and made 2 pair on the flop.

What is the best way to beat loose players?

simply wait until you have a monster hand and they'll pay you off

I prefer a baseball bat, but a 2x4 works too.

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You explain heaven!

Just keep your cards tight and you will win longrun...

If the players ar very aggresive and raises like #!%* then play more passive yourself. Let them do the raises and pay you off...

When you have the top hand... All-in... More than often players like this call to anything...

Play cards with good implied odds (ex. A3s or 56s 33 a.s.o), and fold if the flop doesn't hit...
(That will conceal your thight style too)


If you just have the best startinghand each time you choose to play, you will win (longterm)... That's a promise!!!

I can't really top Ripp's advice - post flop is where you'll really gain from his words.

But I thought it is worth mentioning some things to consider preflop. Stick to the basics: You should just make sure you have good starting standards, and stick with them. When you get a hand worth playing, for the most part you don't want to limp with it. I only think it is worth trying to limp with low pocket pairs and suited Ax or Kx in late position. Your starting standards have to tighten in early position. Etc... These are the basics. When you hit something on the flop such as top pair top kicker, play it out and don't assume you're beat right away just because the loose player is betting into you. Chances are they have a worse kicker.

Contrary to one thing Ripp mentioned, I don't think it's necessarily worth cold calling preflop raises with any pocket pairs under all circumstances. I like this rule of thumb: if you think the amount you put in the pot preflop is less than 8.5 times the amount you would win if you hit trips, then call the raise. Otherwise, foldem. Mid to low pocket pairs are easily and frequently screwed, especially on flops with many/loose players seeing it. Even hitting that low set on the flop is occasionally going to screw you, if you called a big preflop raise with them.

Best wishes.

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I like to look at it the other way. If it is more than 15% or the raisers stack (assuming you have him covered) then it isn't worth it because he can't pay you off sufficiently.

- sed

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

can anybody give a straight answer anymore on here ? seems like anytime a noob comes on here asking a legitimate question nobody wants to take the time to give them a straight up answer

Since you're calling me out, I'll mention that I have given more than my fair share of straight answers and analytical advice.

Pardon me for trying to have a little fun once in a while.

i play low limit games online, probably very similar to the games you describe. I only started playing 3ish weeks ago, but i'd say i've played enough to be semi-comfortable in them now.

Everyone else already gave you advice about what to play, etc. Here's my advice: believe deep in your heart that good cards will win in the end. Everytime you lose to a bad beat or a terrible chaser, you'll doubt the goodness of good cards. You will probably lose a lot to bad beats, but you will gain more back due to solid play. Believe!

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The house games I play around here are all the same; half the table always sees the flop and everyone is aggressive as all hell. It's hard to shift gears from the internet play.

And, if you don't play about five or six hands in a row you start getting berated. Haha.

All of the above is great advice, I suggest re-reading it. Also, let them know you're a player. Raise large early and they will fold. It might take 6xbb, but when you have ATs it's worth folding people out to play the hand more profitably.

Well, you gotta decide why you're playing. Fold the junk and let them yell at you, who really cares, at the end of the day/week/month when you're the only one who is up money, they will understand.

Something you could try with aa/kk/qq/maybe jj, just shove it all in preflop. Odds are you win. only thing is, if you for example start with your friends with 10 bucks in, don't shove and double up to 20, then shove again and double up to 40, then shove again and lose all 40. Get what i'm saying? If you get called by someone who can cover your entire stack, you will eventually have your pockets busted and lose it all, so only double up that way once or twice a night, play the rest of them normally.

Originally Posted by Greedo017

you will eventually have your pockets busted and lose it all, so only double up that way once or twice a night, play the rest of them normally.

Au contraire, if you're likely to double up go ahead and do it as many times as you want. If you're holding AA/KK and you think you'll get an AI call from a smaller pair or from a non-pair, push all in. Every time. Even if you have a sinking feeling that opp's pair of nines will set.

Remember, it's one long session. It is true that you'll occasionally hit the bad luck and the nines will set. Who cares? If they're going to play like that the longrun outcomes will be:

-they win big some nights, and lose big some nights, and overall lose some
-you win big some nights, lose a little bit some nights, and overall pwn them

Not terribly glamorous. But true.

Addendum: the operative bit in my critique of Greedo is
if you think you'll get an AI call from a smaller pair

When opps pick up on the fact that you've got hot sh*** when you go AI preflop, the calls will be less likely and you'll have to change gears.

But the reason to change gears is NOT "I'm pusing my luck -- someone's due to crack my aces". This is false. Your aces' previous performance has no affect on their current chances.[/i]

Best thing I can tell you is to pick your spots and be aggressive. The idea behind NL tournaments is not to show your hand unless you're sure it's good. Think about this... let's say you are short-stacked. If you get pocket aces against, say pocket Jacks, you're 4.5:1 to win... or about 82%. So you get your money in and go all-in, get called, and are hoping to double up. You do. Very next hand, you get aces again. You push all-in and get called by QQs... again, 82%. You win and double up again. But you're still just an average stack. Next hand you get them AGAIN! You push all-in and get called by a big stack with pocket 22s. Still 82%, but this time you lose. Ouch. Bad-beat, righ? Sure, sure...

But the funny thing is, it's not a bad beat at all. You see, you are basically betting a parlay. You must win the first + second + third. Figuring out the chances of winning all of them is done by multiplying all of the percentages together (82% x 82% x 82%)... it comes up to roughly 55%. So you are only a slight favorite to still be in the tournament after being all-in three times with the best hand in the game.

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

the odds of hitting trips on the flop with any pocket pair is 12.5%

my rationale is calling any pre flop raise when I have pockets ...provided that its less than 15% of my stack

According to a chart provided by Lou Krieger that I have, the odds of hitting a set with a wired pair is 11.8% or equivalently, a 7.5:1 long-shot.

One way to calculate this: you need to enumerate the total number of flops (out of the 50C3 = 19,600 possible ones) that would contain one or more of your two outs.

By immediate pot odds alone, if there is >=7.5 small bets in the pot pre-flop, you should stay in to draw to your set. However, given how high the implied odds are for a set (since it's so well disguised), it's still profitable to see the flop when there are less than 7.5 small bets in the pot pre-flop.

You need to be aware of potential raises behind you (as well as check raises in front of you) that might impact your odds.

Originally Posted by RiverMonkey

According to a chart provided by Lou Krieger that I have, the odds of hitting a set with a wired pair is 11.8% or equivalently, a 7.5:1 long-shot.

One way to calculate this: you need to enumerate the total number of flops (out of the 50C3 = 19,600 possible ones) that would contain one or more of your two outs.

By immediate pot odds alone, if there is >=7.5 small bets in the pot pre-flop, you should stay in to draw to your set. However, given how high the implied odds are for a set (since it's so well disguised), it's still profitable to see the flop when there are less than 7.5 small bets in the pot pre-flop.

You need to be aware of potential raises behind you (as well as check raises in front of you) that might impact your odds.

You needn't enumerate all flops to find out your odds of hitting a set on the flop with a pocket pair. You can just figure out the probability of not hitting your set and subtract that from 1.

You hold 2 cards. There are 50 unseen cards (in the deck and other peoples' hands). There are 2 cards that complete your set.

On the first card of the flop, you know that 2 cards help you and 48 don't. So 48/50 don't help. You continue this for the other cards to get the probability for not making your set on the flop:

48/50 * 47/49 * 46/48 = 88.24%

If you subtract this from 1, you get the probability for making your set on the flop:

1 - 88.24% = 11.76%

...

When deciding whether to call a raise with small pocket pairs, I think it is important to consider both the size of the pot and stack size. In a loose game with a lot of people calling the pre-flop raise, you should be more willing to call with a small pocket pair, even if the original raiser doesn't have a very big stack.

Suppose that the raise is $10 and there are 3 callers before the action gets to you. With $40 already in the pot, you really only need to win an additional $35 when you make your set to make the $10 call worthwhile. So the pre-flop raiser doesn't have to have $75 in his stack, only $35 ... if you think he is willing to put that money in the pot.

Zangief, ...... Nice! Good on ya!