How to become a winning player

I have been playing hold'em for about 9 months now. Over this period, I have been a consistent loser. I have tried all types of games: sng's, $25.00 nl, .5/1,1/2,2/4,3/6,5/10, and tournaments (30 or less buy in). Over this period, I have lost thousands of dollars. I enjoy playing the game, but not at this price. I know I have the potential to be a winning player. I won an sng and I place in the top 80% in just about every tourney that I enter. It is just that every time I go up, I come crashing back down and lose it all. I have been trying to play fewer starting hands, about 30 %. I think I just get bored when I am folding all of the time and that is probably one of my biggest problems (patience). What is a good percentage of hands to play? Maybe playing multiple screens will make me less bored and give me a better chance of playing only premium hands. I would like someone to explain their fundamental strategy so that I can see how much mine differs. My basic strategy is this: I will raise any pair 10's or above, I will typically raise with ak, aq, and aj, I will also play suited connectors such as Q9, J9, 109, etc. Once the flop is down, i will typically bet a small amount with a middle pair or straight or flop just to feel everyone out. I will typically call a bet on a flush/straigh draw or middle pair in an attempt to pick up two pair, if it is cheap compared to the pot. This strategy is obviously not working. Someone please give me some insight .[/img][/url]

You said it yourself, you need patience. Easily the most important thing in poker. You could also try raising your aggression at the table, because it sounds like you play tight-passive. Read a few books.

Well first of all.. lower the stakes. Stay low until you are winning consistently. I started at 2c/4cNL and a few of my mates were 1c/2cNL players for quite a while. You will also need to learn position as it is vital.

When you say .5/1, 1/2, 2/4,3/6 and 5/10.. are these refering to fixed limit??

percentage of starting hands i think should be around 20-30% for a full ring game, The hands that you mentioned.. pairs: 10s, js.. its not always wise to raise them.. position is a big factor. And with playing suited connectors, I have a bunch of requirements for the hand before i play them. Because they are junky hands you have to be careful with them. They tend to get you involved when you shouldnt be.

Start posting hand histories as you will get more specific advice then, and i find it to be often much more useful than what i read in here (the stragedy section).

Also i see this is your first post.. Welcome to FTR. You're in the right place.

thanks for your responses,
I realize now, that everyone is more educated here than I am. I know the basics, but that doesn't seem to be enough. I have tried to play all kinds of ways: very tight, very aggressive, the bully, and everywhere in between. I think I need to find a playing style that I can win with.

Welcome to the site.

This place is a goldmine, seriously. Make use of it.

Read the bankroll management thread in the beginner's section.

Multitabling does WONDERS for patience. I play 3 tables, fairly tight, following very closely to the starting hands listed at http://www.kleptic.com/poker/nlhands.html and I don't get bored.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by japanblows

I think I need to find a playing style that I can win with.

The playing style that you can win with will change at every table, You will truly be a winning player when you can play profitably against any opponent. But for now you should learn to play Tagg (Tight Aggressive).

You may have been playing a varioty of different styles.. but with slight flaws in your strategy, causing you to be a break even/losing player

I currently play at empire, where the lowest limit games are .5/1. According to the bankroll section, if i am starting with $100, i should deposit about $10 on about 3 tables. Or do I need 300 to play on multiple tables? Play very tight, but aggressive and strictly adhere to the starting hands on Dassin's reply. Pay attention to pot odds and never chase cards. Does this seem like a good strategy for me right now?

Originally Posted by japanblows

I currently play at empire, where the lowest limit games are .5/1. According to the bankroll section, if i am starting with $100, i should deposit about $10 on about 3 tables. Or do I need 300 to play on multiple tables? Play very tight, but aggressive and strictly adhere to the starting hands on Dassin's reply. Pay attention to pot odds and never chase cards. Does this seem like a good strategy for me right now?

Taking only $10 to a .5/1 table is a pretty bad idea.. you need more than that if you want to play realisitcally

to play .5/1 limit you should really have a $300 bankroll.. I would suggest moving to a different site, pokerstars has as low 2c/4c limit, and 1c/2c NL.. You want to stay at low stakes while learning to win, you money progress will be slow, but when you're learning that is of no consequence. Better to be making a little than losing alot. Also, lower stakes will have weaker players, which ofcourse makes it easier to beat..

There are a number of posts that would be important for you to read in the begginners circle.. ie. all the stickys.

as it has been mentionned, you should play lower stakes. If you are a loosing playing at NL25, you'll be a loosing playing at any stakes above that. Wait until you can beat a certain level before moving up.

I know that when you play online, patience can get an issue. One of the thing that helped me was to play 3 tables at the time. I play 20-25% percent of my hands, but since I'm 3-tabling, I have a hand to play most of the time, and don't feel the need to play trash hands.

If patience really is an issue, you could also try playing 5-6max tables. The action is quite fast, and it is ok to loosen up a little bit your starting hand requirements for these games.

Do you know your pot odds? Do you know when it is ok to chase a flush? Do you know which amount to bet so that chasers don't have the odds to call you when you believe they are on a draw? If no, you have some study to do. Reading and posting on this forum should help your game. You could also read a few books. If you're into NL, I'd suggest Harrington on Holdem Vol. 1. Even if it is a tournament book, it teaches to play a tight-agressive game and that can be applied perfectly to ring games.

Good luck. With some efforts, I believe anyone can be a profitable player.

I think missmisery's post hit the nail on the head.

Don't move up until you can beat the limit under it. Multi-table if you're just totally bored.

I don't reccommend 5-6 max, though...it's a different ball game.

Most of all, just play very tight, 20-25%, and bet those hands. Just play them straight up.

I became a winning player in less than a month, probably 90% (at first) of that could be attributed to hand selection. I just played pairs and big aces, and was very tight after a raise. You can easily turn a profit playing that way in lower stakes.

Position is huge, especially in NL. Learn to tighten up when you're out of position. When you're on the button, loosen up a bit. If you're the small blind, you need to remember that you will be under the gun after the flop. Try not to chase hands unless you're getting the right odds. Don't chase gutshot straight draws unless your odds are extremely favorable.

Sometimes a strategy I like to use, is to not raise with my huge hands pre flop (unless there are a bunch of limpers, then I have to raise). This is a risk reward play that can pay well. If nobody puts you on a big hand then they will bet at you, which of course is what you want.

One thing I have to mention for tournaments, KNOW WHEN TO STEAL THE BLINDS. If the blinds are low, sometimes I notice players trying to steal them. That's a big no no, the blinds are so small that it's not even worth it. And when somebody busts you with a real hand, then you just wasted a lot of chips. The proper time to steal the blinds is when they start getting high and have great value.

Anyways, play smart, read a couple NL books, and you will improve.

learning to not bluff and to not reraise what i thought was probally a bluff were the 2 biggest helps to my game.

just isnt worth it.

If your a losing player the solution is quite simple.
1) you read everything on this site making notes as you go
2)Buy a book like sklansky or harrington. Read it make notes.
3)go to a nice big site with cheap sngs. Play the smallest and learn to beat the game by being tight and playing psoition and stealing the odd blind. (make sure you are adequatly br'ed for these games)
4)Now start to take your game to the LOWEST cash tables you can find. Play the same game tight but now include a few more hands that are a little more unorthodox.
0 (the most important)) Always study your game and figure out where you went wrong. Post hand histories here so others can give you ideas on how to play. Watch players who are winnning money and try to incorporate some of their play into yours. adapt.

This might help, its how i did it. I recomend sngs simply becasue you only commit a fixed amount of cash to a lot of hands (hopefully) therefore you gain experience at the cheapest price and learn about the game.
p.s If your bored playing at one table you are not (i repeat) ARE NOT paying enough attention to the players around you. This speaks for itself if you are losing. Don't multitable until you get good. BE PATIENT

Some good advice already but I want to add..

Ask yourself: why am I playing? To have fun? To win money? In order for you to win you must change your attitude: its no longer about having fun, making money has to come first. If you look at the game as a way to have fun you will consistently lose, IMO. Go to play money for that. If you want to make money you first have to decide that you are playing for that purpose and prepare yourself for it (reading, studying, watching, etc.) Once you make this mental switch, you will no longer get bored and you will have the discpline it takes to prepare yourself (by reading and studying) and to play a correct strategy.

It's easy.

Post the last hand you played past the flop.

What was your thought process?

Did you have a thought process?

You should get/improve your thought process.

-'rilla

Have played at Party for just over two yrs now.First 12 mos played $25NL ring games almost exclusively. Despite reading Brunson/Sklansky/Helmuth, watching forums , etc., lost around $2500 net.
Assessing my play, would say 70% of losses attributable to impatient/very weak play on my part. Played lame starting hands/chased foolishly/was too "macho" to fold to monster re-raises, etc. But would say 30% of losses attibutable to playing against the many "maniacs" that populate those lowstakes tables @PP. If I had infinite patience and discipline ,i realize could make a fortune from these calling stations, but i just dont. Plus the constant influx of new players/money to the ring games made it impossible(for me) to get any kind of read on the other players.

Year ago switched to $5-20 SngG STT's. First 6 mos lost around $500, until realized that STTs are a TOTALLY different sport than ring games.

Realized that Stts are a zero sum game: everytime another player looses a hand, I benefit even though i'm not even in the hand. In ring game, I only benefit if I win the hand. This has done wonders for my patience and winning record.

Last 6 mos im up a little over $1K(still down $2K overall,but i've reversed my downhill slide and am finishing ITM more than 40% of time.

My strategic objective is to get to final 5 in each game. If I get there ive seen enough hands to have a bit of read on the other players, and can usually play on the bubble into the money.

Tactics to get to final 5 are simple---play tighter than a brick! First three levels my min starting hand is 10s or AK. And when i get those hands I play them very aggressive---and show my cards---telling whole table i am one tight ass player, which serves me well in the later levels when I can steal quite a few significant blinds. Patience isnt such a problem for me anymore, as I take joy in others chip losses even to other players. Every time someone loses a chip, I'm in a better position, even if i wasnt the one who won the chip! I'm content to watch others take each other out, and occasionaly taking one out myself with my "monster" hands. (A cautionary tip: NEVER play 1st hand of a PP STT unless youve got pocket rockets--even then beware--some bozo with pocket deuces will go all-in and hit his set!).

After level 3 or 4 I loosen up quite a bit(although not to the point of crazy). I continue to play as aggressively as i dare. In late position i try to steal blinds any time they havent been raised in front of me. If iam dealt or flop a monster i wont be so aggressive, but will try to suck more out of the hand. My objectives here are to build my stack, and get to final 3 or 4.

If i do make it to the money, I have'nt yet developed a personal strategy that i can describe other than playing hyper aggressive. Ive learned that in ring games i was almost always playing the cards, but in the STTs im playing the opponents and the chip stacks. If I make it ITM, I hope my final two opponents are still playing their CARDS.

My "system" isnt based on very much poker experience or expertise, but it has stopped my rapid bleeding, and i'm now making a few bucks(at least over the past 6 mos). I've learned that,personally, STTs are more interesting, challenging , and fun than ring games. Also, I can't see/detect much difference in opponent skill level between PP's $5, $10, and $20 STTs. Although I still consider myself a poker fish, there seems to be a whole bunch of minnows at these stakes. I'm still not confident enough to move up in stakes...I fear the sharks and barracuda's that may swim in those waters.

I'm sure EVERYBODY who posts here at FTR has a lot more experience than me, and I would really appreciate their comments on these musings.

Thanks for all of your responses. I think that DimitriT made a valid point about my play. I think it is easy for me to lose focus on exactly what I am trying to do when at the table. I have been playing on the play money tables for a couple of days now and I realize that I can get the same type of entertainment that I get from the cash tables. However, I still have the desire to play for money and win. I believe I have to constantly remind myself of why I am playing the game. I am sure that you all have probably encountered the same mentality at some point. I have reviewed my hand histories and have concluded that I have enough knowledge to play and win. It is only when I get impatient and impulsive that I start taking too many risks. If you have any tips on how you maintain your discipline when playing, please let me know. I believe goal setting will help me stick with my game plan. Any thoughts?

Welcome to FTR, I am 100% serious when I say that if you take the time to read through all the resourses avaliable in these forums and on this site, you will have more then enough at your desposal to become a winning poker player. I can testify personally that this reading this site has sharpened my game a thousand percent, and has allowed me to become a profitable player in a very short time.

Excellent advice from all above me, but Ill add my own two cents:

Reading material: Order some of those books that people suggested. They are great tools and will teach you how to become a "tight agressive agressive" player, one who can show an easy profit at low stakes holdem. Also read ALL the sticky posts in the beginner section. They all have tons to say about becoming a profitable player.

Watching and reading other players: There is plenty of action going on at even 1 table that you shouldn't get bored for a minute. DimitriT is totally right when he points out that you have to "have your head in the game." When you arent in a hand, study your opponents. Try to guess their playing styles. Do they raise preflop alot? Do they limp in alot of hands then call the flop and turn alot? Try to watch showdowns between other players at your table and guess what their hands might be. Once you learn and memorize all the odds, try to start guessing when players are making mistakes. Such as, " that guy just called, I bet hes on the draw and shouldnt have called that big flop bet". Watch closely when people show their cards, it tells volumes about their skill level. Did that guy just show down Q5s when he was in early position preflop? This indicates he doesnt know proper hand selection, and probably means he sucks at poker. Watching things like that will help your reading immensely. Some day, you will get to a point where its almost like you can see their hole cards sometimes they are so predictable. Are they weak/tight, loose and overly agressive, or a calling station? Does this guy always win his showdowns? These are the weapons that you will bring to bear against these same players when you are in a hand against them, so watch closely!

Starting hands: You can read about starting hands alot of places, on this site or elsewhere. You should be folding alot more, and raising more of the ones you dont fold preflop. Here is a rough guide that I used when I playd <25NL (as you will see, preflop hand selection is ALL about position, you have to master it to be a good player):
Raise from ANY position at least 6xbb + more if there are alot of limpers or a raise before you: AA, KK, QQ
Raise from late position 6xbb or more: JJ, TT (sometimes), AK, AQ, KQs (sometimes)
Call blinds from early/mid position: AK, AQ, all pocket pairs below QQ
Call blinds from late position (BUTTON OR CUTOFF ONLY): any pocket pair below JJ, KQ, AJ, AT (sometimes), Axs, JTs, J9s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s (note that those suited connectors are hit or miss, LET THEM GO on the flop if you dont flop two pair or better or arent given proper odds to chase a straight or flush)
Calling raises preflop: Call moderate raises (under 4xbb-8xbb) with ONLY AK (rarely with AQ, its just not worth it), and all pockets JJ or below. (note with medium/low pockets you should be looking to flop three of a kind, or fold your hand immediately)
Reraise any raise preflop with AA or KK, and situationlly with QQ.
FOLD EVERYTHING ELSE, its GARBAGE!.
Also, play tighter on your small blind, not looser! alot of money is leaked away by calling small blind with garbage cards. Because you are first position for the rest of the betting rounds, you should be playing much fewer hands on small blind, not more. (some people may find this point debatable, I leave that up for discussion)
(of course there should be and will be modifications to what I outlined based on situation, but generally this is a good foundation to build your hand selection on as a beginner.)

Stakes: GO READ BANKROLL MANAGEMENT. VERY, Very important. IT will prevent you from losing all your money, simple as that. As for game choice, low stakes NL sit n go tournaments are a perfect way to learn odds and agression without risking hardly any money. Try them, I bet you will find them to be extremely informative.

Also, as soon as you feel you are playing break even poker, go do some bonus whoring. Its a surefire way to cushion your losses and make your profits grow with little or no risk.

I hope you find this useful.

here is my contribution to this.

1. rilla's advice is good.

2. if you start playing under 20% of your hands, say 17%, at party 25NL, i bet you will see you immediately begin to be a winning player.

STOP THE FEELER BETS WITH MIDDLE PAIR

They're absolute killers. Feeler bets are almost worthless at mid stakes. You want the other guy putting out a feeler bet so you know he's on middle pair, not the other way around. There's a time and a place for feeler bets. When you sense overwhelming weakness in a hand you have nothing as well, or when you have a monster and want someone to come over the top of you.

STOP CHASING

Don't chase flushes and OESD for pot sized bets or more unless (A) you can get a free turn card, or (B) other callers are giving you odds.

STOP CALLING RAISES WITH EASILY DOMINATED HANDS

Ignoring the gap concept by calling raises with stuff like KJ or AT requires position, knowledge of opponent, and excellent postflop ability. Don't do it.

SOMETIMES CALLING WITH A8 OFFSUIT IS WORSE THAN CALLING WITH 78 OFFSUIT

Why is this? Well what are you hoping to flop with A8? You play an ace for a pair, and a low connector for a straight. A8 has less implied odds, because of your inability to get rid of it when AK is draining your stack on an AK8 flop. So stop calling with high cards and shit kickers unsuited. They're the worst cards new players can see a flop with.

LEARN HOW TO PLAY LOW POCKET PAIRS

I see some people fold these all the time when the implied odds are amazing. I'm not going to go into the value of them too much, but if you understand implied odds then you need no explaination. These hands are your trapper destackers. See a flop with them. Every 11th time you'll flop a deceptively hidden 3 of a kind and probably erase someone. Maybe this title should say LEARN ABOUT IMPLIED ODDS. Almost nothing is more important than implied odds in NL.

1. Move down. Unless money is of no value you can learn while losing less until you turn the corner to profitability.
2. Don't multitable until you can win at one table consistantly. If you're making bad decisions on one table, you will probably make more if you multitable before you're ready.
3. Patience. I sometimes right this down somewhere before playing. I'm a winning player but this is one issue I constantly struggle with.
4. Study/read/think. Don't think that just by playing alone you will get better(though that is important)
5. Stick to one game for now, either limit or NL, and either ring or SNGs. Once you can beat it, only then move to something else

Just read all my posts. I've answered everything.

-'rilla