Hey guys, just lost the roll

Just went down 150 on PP and I'm thinkin to myseld, "I'm doin' something wrong." I'm going to rebuy 100 soon and transfer 50 to my friend and we will split the profits. We already tried this, on tuesday we were both up around 30 and somehow by thursday we're both bankrupt. I wouldn't really consider either of us newbies, I'm a tight player and like to sit at soft nl or pl omaha tables and hes a more agressive player and likes the 6 handed nl tables.

Anywho, i was wondering if anyone would be up for helpin me out via getting on AIM and watching one of my sessions, giving tips and correct plays.

(I've had some terrible beats lately, i was all in preflop with AQ vs A10 and flop was A10X, placed 3rd in sng, I've flopped the straight and some guy was calling 5 dollar bets to the river to suckout his flush, i think i can get the hand histories of the day we lost all our money if anyone wants to see.)

I guess i'm just baffled how anyone is making money here, it's not like i was even making any glaring mistakes.

and somehow by thursday we're both bankrupt

Gee, I wonder how a plan like this could fail.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...t=4971&start=0

-'rilla

Welcome!

First off, read this....

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=4971

Post some of your HH's on here and people will give advice. Just edit out the hands where it is a CLEAR fold because reading entire HH's is a bit time consuming.

Originally Posted by zboyce

I guess i'm just baffled how anyone is making money here, it's not like i was even making any glaring mistakes

Sometimes you don't realise even some of the slightest little things that cost u dear.

gorilla-thats great and all, i dont really have 300-400 to spare to suffieciently fund even a 25nl roll.

HH:

#Game No : 2293610798
***** Hand History for Game 2293610798 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, July 01, 17:40:31 EDT 2005
Table Table 54999 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: drstjohn ( $19.9 )
Seat 2: stet548 ( $0.7 )
Seat 4: howardhanson ( $25.05 )
Seat 6: Inn0va ( $46.9 )
Seat 7: Masters11 ( $64.68 )
Seat 8: duhglas ( $22.3 )
Seat 9: besi007 ( $2.92 )
Seat 10: wreck72 ( $65.28 )
Seat 5: zboyce ( $19.75 )
howardhanson posts small blind [$0.1].
zboyce posts big blind [$0.25].
drstjohn posts big blind + dead [$0.35].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zboyce [ 8h Ac ]
Inn0va folds.
Masters11 calls [$0.25].
duhglas calls [$0.25].
besi007 folds.
wreck72 folds.
drstjohn checks.
stet548 folds.
howardhanson calls [$0.15].
zboyce checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 9h, 9s ]
howardhanson checks.
zboyce bets [$1].
Masters11 folds.
duhglas folds.
drstjohn folds.
howardhanson calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
howardhanson checks.
zboyce bets [$2].
howardhanson folds.
zboyce does not show cards.
zboyce wins $5.2
stet548 has left the table.
Game #2293615250 starts.


#Game No : 2293653353
***** Hand History for Game 2293653353 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, July 01, 17:49:27 EDT 2005
Table Table 54999 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: drstjohn ( $16.95 )
Seat 2: deadmoney30 ( $24.25 )
Seat 4: howardhanson ( $35.15 )
Seat 5: zboyce ( $16.45 )
Seat 6: Inn0va ( $49.75 )
Seat 7: Masters11 ( $63.33 )
Seat 8: duhglas ( $9.2 )
Seat 9: besi007 ( $4.57 )
Seat 10: wreck72 ( $74.13 )
Seat 3: brentasaurus ( $22.75 )
deadmoney30 posts small blind [$0.1].
brentasaurus posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zboyce [ Ac 2h ]
howardhanson calls [$0.25].
zboyce calls [$0.25].
Inn0va folds.
Masters11 folds.
duhglas folds.
besi007 folds.
wreck72 folds.
drstjohn folds.
deadmoney30 calls [$0.15].
brentasaurus checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 5d, Ad ]
deadmoney30 checks.
brentasaurus checks.
howardhanson checks.
zboyce bets [$1].
deadmoney30 calls [$1].
brentasaurus folds.
howardhanson folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
deadmoney30 checks.
zboyce bets [$3].
deadmoney30 calls [$3].
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
deadmoney30 bets [$4].
zboyce folds.
deadmoney30 does not show cards.
deadmoney30 wins $12.55
Game #2293659607 starts.

#Game No : 2293667806
***** Hand History for Game 2293667806 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, July 01, 17:52:31 EDT 2005
Table Table 54999 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: drstjohn ( $16.7 )
Seat 2: deadmoney30 ( $28.55 )
Seat 3: brentasaurus ( $22.25 )
Seat 4: howardhanson ( $34.55 )
Seat 5: zboyce ( $11.95 )
Seat 6: Inn0va ( $49.75 )
Seat 7: Masters11 ( $64.33 )
Seat 8: duhglas ( $8.7 )
Seat 9: besi007 ( $4.57 )
Seat 10: wreck72 ( $74.73 )
zboyce posts small blind [$0.1].
Inn0va posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zboyce [ Ks Ah ]
Masters11 calls [$0.25].
duhglas folds.
besi007 folds.
wreck72 calls [$0.25].
drstjohn folds.
deadmoney30 calls [$0.25].
brentasaurus calls [$0.25].
howardhanson raises [$3].
zboyce is all-In [$11.85]
Inn0va folds.
Masters11 folds.
wreck72 folds.
deadmoney30 folds.
brentasaurus folds.
howardhanson calls [$8.95].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, Qs, Qd ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
howardhanson shows [ 9h, 9c ] a full house, Nines full of queens.
zboyce doesn't show [ Ks, Ah ] a pair of queens.
howardhanson wins $23.9 from the main pot with a full house, Nines full of queens.
Game #2293671193 starts.

just really showed key hands, that was a buy in i lost (20$)

Fold the A2o prefl0p.

Originally Posted by zboyce

gorilla-thats great and all, i dont really have 300-400 to spare to suffieciently fund even a 25nl roll.

Kiss of death. Get the money together or play smaller stakes on Pokerstars.

Hands like the AK hand happen, you can't possibly win every flip game but you can very easily lose 2 in a row. No matter how good you are, you can't avoid variance. That's why there isn't just one player consistantly dominating every WPT and WSOP tourny. That's the name of the game.

-'rilla

well, i get the rake back on PP so i would rather play there, i know you're right, i just wish i could win more often, i feel like im setting myself to take beats?

The first rule of poker is to play inside your BR. If you don't do that, you are pretty much resigned to losing unless you get lucky.

I say deposit into PokerStars and grind out the micro NL ring before you move back to PartyPoker.

Fold A2o pre-flop, it is one of the worst hands in Hold 'em, worse than 65o in my opinion (and you probably wouldnt play that hand would you?)

going all in with AKo is a bad idea most of the time, if you think the other guy is actually going to call. I mainly push with it as a means of semi-bluff, hoping the other guy will just fold thinking I have AA or KK.

AKo is the 54-46 dog against 77-22, 57-43 dog against QQ-88, the 70-30 dog to KK, and the 89-11 dog to AA. As you can see its not the best hand to go all in with, when any pocket pair is involved. And most guys at 25 nl are in love with their pkt pairs and will gladly go all in with even small ones (as this guy did with his 9s).

You also need a way larger bankroll than 50$ for 25 NL. Espicially if you're going all in on coinflip situations like that. Even if you win a couple coin flips, youll just move to higher stakes (still underbankrolled), do some more coinflips and eventually lose it all.

So I advise moving down to .01/.02 at PokerStars (and yes youll probably get bored, because its a grind) or gettin some extra money, only way its gonna go..

thanks for the advice guys, i did buy in for 150 and when i got down to 100 i split with friend. i think i just may move to PS for ahwile.

I started off with $50 on PartyPoker and did OK for a little while, then busted out. This is because I was utterly clueless about pretty much anything. So I did a little bit of research and bought into Pacific instead with $50. It is now getting up to $250 through playing on the micro limit tables (mostly 0.25-0.50 and 0.50-1.0). I haven't played on Pokerstars but Pacific is also a good site if you have to start off without much of a roll. Only problem is that I've had a few disconnects and glitches with their software, which seems a bit buggy.

taking your time to build a roll as people have said helps you both not bust out and your play in general. I started with 10$ from a friend playing micro limit on Pstars and now between that (but now mostly 5$ sng's) have gotten it up over 200$

There are plenty of way to build up enough money to play $25 NL. Not sure if it is still the same, but in the past you could make close to $200 with little risk by taking advantage of the Casino-on-net bonus. BoondockSaint or Triptanes might be able to offer more details here.

Try searching the forums for CON or blackjack.

Here's some advice that is rehashed from others: Fold Ax where X < 10 when not suited, esp from early position. Ax, as you have already experienced, will hit you A, but your kicker is nonexistant. When you have broadway cards (A-10) you must also take into account your kicker.

AKo is a hand you might push all in during a home game, but online or casino it's another story. You might consider cold calling the raise and see if you flop a pair/2pair/straight/etc. If unraised, you open the raising, but once raised, you have to understand that AK, although strong, still needs a little help. If this was a tournament and you were getting shortstacked, an AK push is merited, but in ring you have to play it well. People who complain that AK is always a loser for them cannot play it well.

Oh yeah, about your suck out flush draw. If you flop a straight make the fool pay, if he didn't catch on the turn, give it a little bigger push. Repeating bets actually gives them odds (depending on original size of the pot). What you should do is something like this.

Pot: $5
Bet $5 on the flop to attempt to push him off at the flop/make him pay.
Pot at Turn: $15
Now your $5 bet will give him 4:1 pot odds which makes the call seem good to him. You have to bet in relation to size of the pot. A $10+ bet would be unprofitable for him.

I'm sorry if this comes off as condescending, but don't play the same way you do in your shorthanded home games or like they do on tournament final tables on tv. Online poker is a beast. We're all masochists for doing it. Always keep an eye out for tiny things that cost you money. Completing from your small blind with one big and one small will cost you over time. It's .15 now, but 100 hands later it's $15 you lost for free.

One other thing. Don't begin to play as bad as your opponents just because they're doing good with junk hands. Never ever ever play at their level. You might see them winning now, but you never see the trouble they get into when they play J2 suited when they only hit the J. This happened to me last night playing 5/10 limit where a guy cold called my preflop raise with J2s and I held AJs, we hit the J and he called it down.

You really just need to learn how to play. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh.

A2os? That's trash fold it.

AK IS NOT A LICENCE TO PRINT MONEY. Do NOT move AI preflop with it, that is a terrible play.

I suggest you spend 50$ on reading and learning how to play, that is worth so much more then any play will be.

Edit: Holdfully this helps - You are, right now, a fish.

i already have learned alot, no you're post wasnt of any help. you would cold call 3$ with 11 left with AK? I knew i might get called, and if i did it would be a race, which it were. A2o was shit and i planned to rep a bigger hand, and did when i bet out on the A flopped, then fired again on the turn, totally backfired.

i played great poker last night, i have been playing in PP's daily 5k freeroll, got 188th of 2,500 last night. I was at about 7500 chips and average was like 10k, i saw a free flop from my BB with q4d flop came all diamonds, one guy just pushes, i call, hes got AK a of diamonds, river comes a blank diamond ;/ I was winning 100% of showdowns and taking down 30-40% of hands preflop.

(i was up to about 22k and floped trip kings, other guy had spade draw, he checks, i bet about 500 into a 750 pot i think, calls, turn was blank, he just pushes, i call and spade on river.... goddam flush draws)

Originally Posted by zboyce

i already have learned alot, no you're post wasnt of any help. you would cold call 3$ with 11 left with AK? I knew i might get called, and if i did it would be a race, which it were. A2o was shit and i planned to rep a bigger hand, and did when i bet out on the A flopped, then fired again on the turn, totally backfired.

i played great poker last night, i have been playing in PP's daily 5k Freeroll, got 188th of 2,500 last night. I was at about 7500 chips and average was like 10k, i saw a free flop from my BB with q4d flop came all diamonds, one guy just pushes, i call, hes got AK a of diamonds, river comes a blank diamond ;/ I was winning 100% of showdowns and taking down 30-40% of hands preflop.

(i was up to about 22k and floped trip kings, other guy had spade draw, he checks, i bet about 500 into a 750 pot i think, calls, turn was blank, he just pushes, i call and spade on river.... goddam flush draws)

umm, you dont call A2o from UTG+1 no matter what your plan is. you shouldnt even be in the hand, but if you have the attitude from the beginning "im gonna bluff this hand" then you OBVIOUSLY need to raise preflop because no one is going to respect you. and i would have cold called the AK hand to see a flop. AK is a drawing hand, not a made hand. he raised 12x the BB (which is a monster raise), so the best you could have hoped for is a coin flip.

makes sense

i think i should reitterate that i wasnts saying these were good hands, i was on obvious tilt and threw away 20, thanks for the advice though. Ive been reading like mad and i have gotten much better at MTT like the PP freerolls, infested with fish. Ive placed better than 500 in the last 3 ive played of 2500. I played super tight until the blinds got monsterous and i started raising 3x-4x BB every hand, landed KK, raised the same and got 4 callers and the flop came a AKX rainbow that was definantly a defining hand.

Originally Posted by zboyce

i already have learned alot, no you're post wasnt of any help. you would cold call 3$ with 11 left with AK?

If you're referring to my long post as unhelpful, then sorry, i tried. And yes, I would cold call the $3 with $11 left. Why? If you miss the flop completely, you can back away quietly with $8. In a tournament, as you might already know, this is a good move, but a cash game, only a better hand will call... then again that's giving a lot of credit to the field. You need to play the implied odds of the hand, not the coinflip. If you hit, you take the stack, if you miss, you step down.

no not you, yea i see what you're saying, for some reason i just dont do well in cash games, i play them the same as i do tournies, makes sense though. thanks for your advice.

heres a hand i need critiqued.. right fold?

***** Hand History for Game 2310138320 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:13652251 Level:4 Blinds (25/50) - Monday, July 04, 19:13:41 EDT 2005
Table $5,000 Freeroll(382427) Table #92 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: slimslim8212 ( $2939 )
Seat 3: Xstacy ( $2020 )
Seat 4: horton888111 ( $545 )
Seat 6: zboyce ( $785 )
Seat 8: takthemoney ( $1360 )
Seat 9: pa_kettle ( $2895 )
Seat 10: limpn2win ( $835 )
Seat 5: Chris00ws6 ( $1229 )
Seat 1: Dokiel ( $1980 )
Seat 7: FirecatDude ( $2510 )
Trny:13652251 Level:4
Blinds (25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zboyce [ Qc Ad ]
horton888111 folds.
Chris00ws6 folds.
zboyce raises [150].
FirecatDude raises [450].
takthemoney folds.
pa_kettle folds.
limpn2win folds.
Dokiel folds.
slimslim8212 folds.
Xstacy folds.
zboyce folds.
FirecatDude does not show cards.
FirecatDude wins 675 chips

Your raise was right on, the decision to call/push is read dependent, but for the most part the fold is correct because most hands that reraise you are AK+. Your best situation is when you're dominated by AK. This case though, you might just be bullied by the big stack. Good fold, it's better to get your chips in when you're the one being the aggressor.

Regarding using tournament play in cash games. Everytime I watch WPT/WSOP etc, I begin to think, "this players would suck in a high stakes cash game" because of their actions. I'm not talking about Brunson, Ivey, Greenstein or others who own up. I'm talking about Gus Hansen or other players that play weak hands and use an all-in to push around.

cool, he had me covered x4, he raises PF quite a bit, but the reraise was the scare, i think i had 2 overs there.

back to 1k chips lol

I posed this in another thred;but here is Matthew Hilger's guide for bankrolling:

0.50-1.00 $500

1.00-2.00 $800

2.00-4.00 $1200

Depending on how much you actually have avaliable of course is your biggest concern of course;I highly recommend whoring the Party skin signup bonuses(look for rakeback when you sign up as well to help).