HELP ME before I go broke (again)

OK - I've read, I've studied, I calculate pot odds, I dont play junk hands, .... I am playing really low stakes (.25/.50) NL. Mostly ring games. I come out ahead most of the time but no large gains. I managed to go from 50.00 to just over 200.00 only to lose back down again several times. I try to play solid and it works well until I get that one hand that I think may double me up and end up losing a huge pot! Ex: I called a small raise preflop with pocket J's - all under cards came (10, 7, 4 rainbow) on the flop so I bet out 2.50 , was raised to 5.00 and I called. The turn was an ace so I called and ended up putting in another 7.50 when my opponent bet because I had seen him run people off pots all night with large bets. The river was a dud and I called another 5.00 bet only to see my opponent turn up pocket 4's for trips. Should I have seen this comming?

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...poker-4971.htm

First of all, if your bank roll is only $50 (or even only $200), you shouldn't be playing 50NL (even if you are the best player in the world). One to four buy-ins is just not nearly enough to handle the natural variance of the game. The standard rule-of-thumb is something like 15-25 buy-ins, closer to the high-end of that if you are a new player. So to play 50NL, you'd probably want closer to ~$1000 in your roll. With only $50-$200, you should move down to micro-stakes or you will inevitably go broke again no matter how well you play.

To understand why this makes sense, read rilla's bankroll management thread:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...poker-4971.htm
{EDIT: Trainer_jyms posted this same link as I was typing my post...this should just add further emphasis that you really need to read this}

Regarding the particular hand you posted, it's hard to give a good analysis without more information. When posting hands you played, it's a good idea to post complete stack sizes, bet sizes, pot sizes, as well as the positions of all pertinent players and order of actions.

Since much of that info is missing, it's hard to give a specific analysis. Generally speaking though, you usually don't want to play a weak overpair for your stack, especially when your overpair becomes second pair when an ace turns.

Beat ya.

I think maybe you misunderstood the stakes - I'm playing 0.25/0.50 as in 25cents and 50cents blinds.

25 cent/50 cent blinds is 50NL (at least it is on the sites I've played at). 50NL refers to the maximum buy-in of $50, not the blind sizes.

So playing in a game with 25 cent/50 cent blinds (and thus assuming a $50 buy-in), you should probably have ~$1000 in your bankroll.

better keep my day job huh

First of all, read up about BANKROLL as above. You must be mad playing 50NL with that roll.
As for that hand you mentioned. Always raise with JJ unless you have a super read. You're letting pocket 4s play cheap and hit their trips.

you need to be playing the .02/.05 tables. start there and work your way up. I have been playing online for about 9 months now and had some decent success, but due to some bad variance, bad play and a cashout, im stuck playing $10nl. Trust me, you will go broke eventually playing this far over your bankroll.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-4971.htm

man, TJ is a madman with the forum search tool. BigSpenda isnt too far behind either.

I know, I know - I need more of a bankroll. I just get really bored playing at the penny tables. I've tried it but honestly, I just cant get into the game unless theres something to gain (or lose for that matter).

Bored poker is winning poker. Excitement is for gambling. You like gambling. www.wizardofodds.com

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-4971.htm

man, TJ is a madman with the forum search tool. BigSpenda isnt too far behind either.

they have excel charts with wizards that bring them to certain threads...forum cops those too!!

If cash games bore you and you only have a $50 BR you could do really cheap MTT and SNG's if you're just looking to pass some time, get better, and hopefully increase yer BR...playing a .25/.50 room with $50 is good for like a weekend of fun...it's what partypoker lived off of with US donks like me for years and years and years

Originally Posted by uscheese

they have excel charts with wizards that bring them to certain threads...forum cops those too!!

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Originally Posted by uscheese

they have excel charts with wizards that bring them to certain threads...forum cops those too!!

lol?

Just kidding jyms

It's not that I can't take a joke, I don't understand a word of it.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

It's not that I can't take a joke, I don't understand a word of it.

It's because you have no sense of humor

After you understand Bankroll, go here to start your education.


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-39184.htm
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-39572.htm
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-40404.htm

Originally Posted by uscheese

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

It's not that I can't take a joke, I don't understand a word of it.

It's because you have no sense of humor

I have one and I don't get any of your recents jokes. Cheese, you switch to cash games yet?

Originally Posted by pillman1965

OK - I've read, I've studied, I calculate pot odds, I dont play junk hands, .... I am playing really low stakes (.25/.50) NL. Mostly ring games. I come out ahead most of the time but no large gains. I managed to go from 50.00 to just over 200.00 only to lose back down again several times. I try to play solid and it works well until I get that one hand that I think may double me up and end up losing a huge pot! Ex: I called a small raise preflop with pocket J's - all under cards came (10, 7, 4 rainbow) on the flop so I bet out 2.50 , was raised to 5.00 and I called. The turn was an ace so I called and ended up putting in another 7.50 when my opponent bet because I had seen him run people off pots all night with large bets. The river was a dud and I called another 5.00 bet only to see my opponent turn up pocket 4's for trips. Should I have seen this comming?

This honestly sounds a lot like the first 2 times I put money on a poker site. I then found FTR. I started at .25/.50 limit tables with a $100 BR and I grinded it up to over $1k right now. Just to show you it is possible. Good luck and please start paying attention to proper br management if you want to be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Originally Posted by uscheese

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

It's not that I can't take a joke, I don't understand a word of it.

It's because you have no sense of humor

I have one and I don't get any of your recents jokes. Cheese, you switch to cash games yet?

No but I put a lot of thought into our conversation from the other night and had a very good night last night...trying to have more patience and I am hoping to play more cash games next week

Yeah start with .02/.05, then .05/.1 and only move up when you're beating them and have accmulated the BR for the next level. If it bores you to put in the effort to get better, maybe poker isn't for you?

imo, "baby sets" are hard to spot when you have overpairs. you just got beat on the hand. no worries.

with more of a roll (i know you've already heard that), you will have the money to survive this sort of beat.

take it in stride. sounds like you did nothing wrong, fundamentally.

next time, when YOU have the 4's, you'll get the guy w/ JJ's stack...just realize its the poker gods paying you back.

Can you invest more? If you could put $200 into your BR then you would be rolled for $0.05/$0.10 which is microstakes but the play is *beginning* to get sensible. The fact of the matter is that if you can't beat this level - and playing solid, ABC poker you WILL beat it - then you don't deserve to move up. Good luck.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Yeah start with .02/.05, then .05/.1 and only move up when you're beating them and have accmulated the BR for the next level. If it bores you to put in the effort to get better, maybe winning poker isn't for you?

FYP.

To the poster, if you absolutely must start playing at 50NL, then be prepared to lose until you've become good enough to beat the game. At that point (which will not necessarily be obvious), you will need to get lucky or put between 700 and 1000 into your bankroll from other sources.

Another way to think about this is to realise that there is a "learning tax" or "learning fee" that everybody has to pay to learn how to play this game. You're MUCH better off paying this tax by burning say 10 buyins at micro stakes like 10NL rather than at 50NL or higher.

Originally Posted by uscheese

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Originally Posted by uscheese

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

It's not that I can't take a joke, I don't understand a word of it.

It's because you have no sense of humor

I have one and I don't get any of your recents jokes. Cheese, you switch to cash games yet?

No but I put a lot of thought into our conversation from the other night and had a very good night last night...trying to have more patience and I am hoping to play more cash games next week

Wait a minute. Someone put in some time and effort and TJ and I actually helped them. SHHH....don't tell any of the other newcomers, they haven't realized it yet.

As for the forum cop thing. I think that'd be a cool thing to have once one of us hit Poohbah status. TJ, you up for a BS vs TJ Round 1 postwhoring adventure? Im sure Swiggs could moderate for us

The Bankroll is jsut the beginning of your problems. Its your style of play. Your hand of JJ in position against a maniac who has raised is a definite reraise to make him make the decision preflop that he knows you are going the distance and does he want to gamble. I know this seems alot but I would have come over the top like a $20 bet if you were in late position and knowing no one would call your reraise or even put him all in. Its better to win a small pot then to lose a big one. The only time I ever cold call is if I have a maniac on my right and I am letting him bet into my AA/KK. Let a bully do the betting for you if you have the nuts but with a marginal hand like JJ you got to drop the hammer and hope he isnt holding AA KK QQ whic is pretty unlikey. And he is a maniac not an idiot, why becuase he took your stack with a set of fours.