help me become more aggressive

Hey all.
First off, I guess I never said this before.... Ive been reading a whole crap load on FTR lately and posting some too, but man, the stuff some of you post is incredible, and thanks for so much of your advice and information, and thanks to everyone who reads this rambling despite the fact that you have nothing really to gain.

Primarily, I am looking to improve my aggression and need examples of how to play in borderline situations. Feel free to read the whole post. If you do, thanks!


As background, I still think I am somewhat of a novice, or maybe a slight step up. I've got a decent handle on just about all of the concepts but still make a lot of betting mistakes and therefore get outdrawn often, etc. I feel I've got the right personal qualities (patience, discipline, focus, etc) to succeed, but need a lot more practice and learning through other peoples examples to take my skill to the next level.

Here's my problem. I realize that I am probably a bit too much of a rock, and I don't know how to break out of it, because I am being moderately successful. Ripptyde's posts are absolutely inspiring, because he usually is talking about SnG's, which is what I play almost exclusively. I play low buy in Sng's, where I think being a rock can often be easy to beat. A lot of folks in these games dont pick up on the fact that I am a rock, so it is easy to take down the pots when I actually hit something.

This leaves a gaping hole in my post flop play - either I
1. hit something pretty nice on the flop and take down a big pot
2. hit something moderate and usually end up folding to any decent aggression, or
3. don't hit anything and fold.

The problem is that 2 and 3 happen 90% of the time, and so the remaining 10% of the time in the "1" category, sometimes I don't take down a big enough pot to make up for the cost to see the flop on the other 90%.

I have recently started picking up on the fact that most TAggy players in SnG's are far too tight in the first few orbits, and i can pick off some decent pots early on, and then slump back into my usual rock mode until I'm ITM. The problem is that, while this is succesful, I don't see it taking me to the next level. I need to learn to roll with the big boys. I need to know how/when to bet into flops where I only have mid pair and a somewhat plausible read that no one has the top pair.

I guess I am looking for examples of how to play aggressively in borderline situations. I don't think I've seen enough examples of how a good taggy player would go about feeling out other players. I am in my own world, and it is moderately satisfying, but am feeling the need to really change up my style. any advice is appreciated!! I hope this isn't too vague, because I really need specific examples, and haven't found enough to learn on the other posts.

Thanks!
FSA

P.S. In case you are curious, here are my placement numbers from my 337 SnG's. Is this typical "rock" looking?:
10th: 12
9th: 15
8th: 23
7th: 19
6th: 36
5th: 40
4th: 40
3rd: 59
2nd: 54
1st: 36

This puts me at about 45% itm, and about $600 profit for the past 6 months of playing $5 and $10 SnGs. I've averaged about 2 games per day. The problem is I just blew a third of my winnings on dumb ass ring games recently.

play 5 dollar micro limit and raise every hand thats suited, connecting or red and try to win and fold when you know you can't OR play 6max!

-'rilla

Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack

Hey all.
First off, I guess I never said this before.... Ive been reading a whole crap load on FTR lately and posting some too, but man, the stuff some of you post is incredible, and thanks for so much of your advice and information, and thanks to everyone who reads this rambling despite the fact that you have nothing really to gain.

Primarily, I am looking to improve my aggression and need examples of how to play in borderline situations. Feel free to read the whole post. If you do, thanks!


As background, I still think I am somewhat of a novice, or maybe a slight step up. I've got a decent handle on just about all of the concepts but still make a lot of betting mistakes and therefore get outdrawn often, etc. I feel I've got the right personal qualities (patience, discipline, focus, etc) to succeed, but need a lot more practice and learning through other peoples examples to take my skill to the next level.

Here's my problem. I realize that I am probably a bit too much of a rock, and I don't know how to break out of it, because I am being moderately successful. Ripptyde's posts are absolutely inspiring, because he usually is talking about SnG's, which is what I play almost exclusively. I play low buy in Sng's, where I think being a rock can often be easy to beat. A lot of folks in these games dont pick up on the fact that I am a rock, so it is easy to take down the pots when I actually hit something.

This leaves a gaping hole in my post flop play - either I
1. hit something pretty nice on the flop and take down a big pot
2. hit something moderate and usually end up folding to any decent aggression, or
3. don't hit anything and fold.

The problem is that 2 and 3 happen 90% of the time, and so the remaining 10% of the time in the "1" category, sometimes I don't take down a big enough pot to make up for the cost to see the flop on the other 90%.

I have recently started picking up on the fact that most TAggy players in SnG's are far too tight in the first few orbits, and i can pick off some decent pots early on, and then slump back into my usual rock mode until I'm ITM. The problem is that, while this is succesful, I don't see it taking me to the next level. I need to learn to roll with the big boys. I need to know how/when to bet into flops where I only have mid pair and a somewhat plausible read that no one has the top pair.

I guess I am looking for examples of how to play aggressively in borderline situations. I don't think I've seen enough examples of how a good taggy player would go about feeling out other players. I am in my own world, and it is moderately satisfying, but am feeling the need to really change up my style. any advice is appreciated!! I hope this isn't too vague, because I really need specific examples, and haven't found enough to learn on the other posts.

Thanks!
FSA

P.S. In case you are curious, here are my placement numbers from my 337 SnG's. Is this typical "rock" looking?:
10th: 12
9th: 15
8th: 23
7th: 19
6th: 36
5th: 40
4th: 40
3rd: 59
2nd: 54
1st: 36

This puts me at about 45% itm, and about $600 profit for the past 6 months of playing $5 and $10 SnGs. I've averaged about 2 games per day. The problem is I just blew a third of my winnings on dumb ass ring games recently.

Lay off the ring games . As for picking up your aggression you can try a few things.

1. Assume you have the best hand until you can be proven otherwise. As long as you are a controlled player you can be aggressive, but also fold when someone really pushes over the top of you.

2. Just let it blossom, take stab's at pots, you'll find its amazing how many you actually take down no contest.

One of the key's to agression is not letting it off, but also knowign when you are beat. Just practice it in small SNG's, its not a huge mystery .

Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack

This puts me at about 45% itm, and about $600 profit for the past 6 months of playing $5 and $10 SnGs. I've averaged about 2 games per day. The problem is I just blew a third of my winnings on dumb ass ring games recently.

Seriously consider moving up. Your game is not fundamentally flawed.

You have no buisness playing 5+1, that rake sucks!

If it wasn't for people asking questions, there wouldn't be anyone posting the tips. I think it's a great question, that I'm interested in reading the responses too.

My question: What is a 5 dollar micro limit?

I found I'm not any good with no limit and better at limit, and my wife is just the opposite. She likes and does better playing SnG's or no limit tourneys, and I like ring games and Limit tourneys. I think because I play limit all the time, I am not any good playing no limit and bullying people out of pots. So I'm interested in seeing the responses too. I might try playing red a couple hands for fun during those droughts that tight people like me have waiting for a hand. That's the first time I read about playing red cards was today. Sounds kinda fun.

Totally agree with fnord, if you play on that rigged PP or Empire move up to the higher buy in SNGs (20+2, 30+3) so that you net more instead of that rip off 5+1 garbage (frikin ridicolous entry fee, if u win u net an amazing 19 dollars ). I'd play the 10+1 to build your bank roll.

At PP or Empire most players do not know what table image is, how to recognize it, or how to spell it. This allows you to play like a rock, and when you hit a big hand and you are check raising they will continue to call you with the second best hand (or worse ). I do not know why you would want to change your game and make it more agressive, 45% ITM is phenomenal.

Well if you do, make some pot sized bets into flops like 3 of the same suit, a pair on the board, 3 of the same card . Just experiment and see what you can do, like Radashack said practice these techniques first in the smaller SNGs, please do not "experiment" in the 200+15 buy in .

6 max NL is where it is at though.

gg and gl

Originally Posted by Triptanes

6 max NL is where it is at though.

The win-rates at 5/10 6 max, 10/20 6 max and 15/30 full blow away the NL win-rates...

Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack

P.S. In case you are curious, here are my placement numbers from my 337 SnG's. Is this typical "rock" looking?:
10th: 12
9th: 15
8th: 23
7th: 19
6th: 36
5th: 40
4th: 40
3rd: 59
2nd: 54
1st: 36

This may be completely speculative, but it looks to me that you are playing very well with a full-ish table, but you are too tight when the game gets short-handed and especially heads-up. Once you get down to 3 players, you simply have to start making some moves. Realize that if there are 3 players at the table and you are dealt any ace, the chances of another player also having one are extremely slim. I think that if you get a little more loose/aggressive when the table gets down to 3-4 people, you will notice a bump in your 3rd and 1st place finishes, which I believe should increase your profit.

Oya Fnord, Limit is for pussies, but I am tempted...

Originally Posted by Triptanes

At PP or Empire most players do not know what table image is, how to recognize it, or how to spell it. This allows you to play like a rock, and when you hit a big hand and you are check raising they will continue to call you with the second best hand (or worse ). I do not know why you would want to change your game and make it more agressive, 45% ITM is phenomenal.

golly, thanks sir.
Actually, my itm for 5+1's is a lot higher than 10's. I started out playing 5+1's because I only had $100 to play with and didnt feel it was enough to start on 10's. After I got confortable with my BR i moved to the 10's and struggled a little at first but now am getting more comfortable. 5+1's are still a lot easier to beat for me, making the 20% rake not seem so bad, but you're right I like to avoid bending over to Party when possible.

FSA,

When you moved up from 5 to 10 SnGs how much of a dip did you end up taking? I was running 45-50% ITM at 5/1s and when I moved up it dropped to about 10% with about 40% in 4th place

sed

That's pretty much what I saw too. Although I think I just happened to get a string of tough tables my first 10 or so at the $10, I only made ITM 2 times. I was discouraged but stuck to it because I reviewed my play and didnt find much significantly wrong with it, just happened to be in bad situations. Glad I stuck to it, bounced back, but it is still harder to beat.

thanks, glad I'm not alone. I guess I'll just be prepared to pay tuition for about 10 SnGs whenever I move up....

- sed

ty everyone for the advice. I actually never considered trying the micro limit tables since party doesnt offer it, i should probably get an account elsewhere. Or maybe I could just mess around on the $5's a little more. I am finally to the point where I am not feeling as "afraid" to take risks, provided they are calculated risks.

I think you are probably right, I should start to push myself to move up. I am feeling ready to go $10 100% of the time. After some time if my $ rate per game is high enough I might start picking up some $20 games.