Good spot or FPS?

Villain is tag reg who I have very little history with, but likes to limp some utg for some reason. I'm not playing with hud, but i would guess he had been a 22/16 over a very small sample. Only note worthy hand he played he flatted a regs utg raise from CO and shoved over another regs squeeze with KK.

EDIt: shouldn't have said very small sample. We have played perhaps 60-70 hands

Preflop i know 47s is not the most ideal hand to 3b, but its my first 3b at the table and i have been picking up very few hands (im probably running like 12/10 or something on their huds) so i think its profitable in a vacume. When he flats me i put him on something like 88-QQ AQ. Im not sure if the KK hand allows me to put alot of AK or KK AA in his range.

Flop puts me ahead of any unpaired part of his range, but i think only what beats me in his range will call and checking this pot down against his range seems to be a very viable option.

His turn bet could mean alot of things, but i felt it could defenately be 99 TT AK AQ or even KQ all of which i can get to fold with a raise here. If he flats me i can also take down a large pot if i hit an out on the river. Am i underestimating the strength of his calling and betting range? Thoughts?





PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($5.45)
UTG ($31.05)
MP ($46.35)
CO ($25)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($25.10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 4
1 fold, MP bets $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, MP calls $2
Flop: ($6.35) J, 4, 5 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($6.35) 3 (2 players)
MP bets $3.25, Hero raises to $10, MP raises to $43.35 (All-In), Hero folds
Total pot: $26.35 | Rake: $1.30

wahtt he fuck are you repping taking this line....

if you want to move him off a hand start by betting the flop

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

wahtt he fuck are you repping taking this line....

His hood.

I posted something but i didn't like it, so let me try again....

I'm confused by the action taken. I guess because you had position you were hoping the 3bet would convince vilian you were repping something strong? However, a check on the flop says you are very weak... His check could mean anything, since you didn't bet it's hard to tell if he was hoping for a c/r (which i think he was)or missed.

Same kind of goes for the turn bet. His bet is half pot, this looks like strength to me. But also could be cause you checked the flop. However I would assume a bluff being pot size here. I think raising here is a good play sometimes, but not this time. If you are raising you have to expect the re-raise and that's just what he did. At this point folding is ofcourse the best option.

I think the line was played very badly, and I'm not judging your play at all but it started off wrong with the 3bet and just continued to go down hill from there

If in this position i think flop bet is MANDATORY

Would you not consider AA KK and JJ to be in my range if you are the villain? Put in another way, against a 25nl seemingly reggish player with limited history would most villains be willing to say "wtf is he repping?" and shove their 99, TT, AK, AQ, or KQ? If so im defenately taking this line with my overpairs here. Seems somewhat circular logic then cause i could have those hands for sure.

Anyways as far as "it started off wrong with the 3bet " i dont think my 3 bet pre was bad at all. And what intended line would you take here with this hand. I really dont like c betting this flop because i am mostly folding out worse hands and getting called by better, is this wrong? Problem is i think checking back flop to c/f turn and river is very bad, so should we be thinking check back flop and raise scare cards on turn?

Overall, how would you guys have played the hand. Thanks for thoughts.

I would have folded pre in this exact situation... even with position I just don't want to get involved here. if playing aggressively then fine but if you are repping the big overs a check on the flop seems weak if i were villain... i'm already questioning the whole action
a half pot bet on turn isn't really screaming bluff here and i'm really thinking he was hoping for the c/r on the flop.
if you were in MP then maybe check flop and see what his action is... I don't know, If I'm villain i'm sensing huge weakness here
but again, the fold is good, no other choice here

I hate just about every single street.

No hud, very small sample, UTG limper, yet you've got reason to believe he's a taggy reg?

You're raising the MP open of a positionally aware player light, without reads. Unless of course, he's not a positionally aware reg, and you're raising some fish's open with 7 high. I don't understand the value of this. Maybe he knows you're capable of opening light, in which case he can call you pretty thin, but maybe he doesn't, in which case he puts you on a big hand, and has set odds, because you only raised to $3. I'd have made it $4 (apart from that I would have folded). I have serious doubts as to whether this would show an automatic profit, but you might just be able to make money doing this, seeing as you'll be cbetting an aweful lot of flops that are checked to you...

...except for the fairly safe flop that just got checked to you. Why are you checking? That's actually a good flop you just got. You made a pair. You've got a draw to 2 pair/trips should your cbet get called. Semi bluff away.

As for the turn, I don't know of any hand he could have where your play is the right thing to do. It seems like lighting money on fire. Even if you've got good reason to think he's taking a stab with an unpaired hand, I'd let one peel. You're not really dead to any legitimate hands he might have, and have decent implied odds. The thing is though, you don't have good reason to think anything, because you've got a small sample and no hud.

I completely hate this hand.

Sorry

I'm very sorry, when i re-read my post i noticed how i had phrased the number of hands we had played together. We had played like 60 or 70 hands. Perhaps that explains the preflop to some of you guys. I had a rather good indication that he was a reg just from the percent of hands he was raising and from what position etc. Also his sizing screamed reg. The only un reggish thing he had done was he limped utg like 2 times. So as far as the preflop i had been waiting for an opportunity to 3 bet because the more time goes by with me being a nit and not having 3 bet the higher my pf FE is. PF I raise $3 to take down a pot of 1.35 and I am confidant it will be profitable in a vacume. As far as the sizing comment i like the pf sizing and calling to set mine here would be a pretty big leak IMO. Flop probably should be a c bet, but my problem is on this flop i think it will take multiple barrels to get him off alot of his range.

Originally Posted by DJJunkPauds

I hate just about every single street.

No hud, very small sample, UTG limper, yet you've got reason to believe he's a taggy reg?

You're raising the MP open of a positionally aware player light, without reads. Unless of course, he's not a positionally aware reg, and you're raising some fish's open with 7 high. I don't understand the value of this. Maybe he knows you're capable of opening light, in which case he can call you pretty thin, but maybe he doesn't, in which case he puts you on a big hand, and has set odds, because you only raised to $3. I'd have made it $4 (apart from that I would have folded). I have serious doubts as to whether this would show an automatic profit, but you might just be able to make money doing this, seeing as you'll be cbetting an aweful lot of flops that are checked to you...

...except for the fairly safe flop that just got checked to you. Why are you checking? That's actually a good flop you just got. You made a pair. You've got a draw to 2 pair/trips should your cbet get called. Semi bluff away.

As for the turn, I don't know of any hand he could have where your play is the right thing to do. It seems like lighting money on fire. Even if you've got good reason to think he's taking a stab with an unpaired hand, I'd let one peel. You're not really dead to any legitimate hands he might have, and have decent implied odds. The thing is though, you don't have good reason to think anything, because you've got a small sample and no hud.

I completely hate this hand.

Sorry

Originally Posted by Donkafelts

I'm very sorry, when i re-read my post i noticed how i had phrased the number of hands we had played together. We had played like 60 or 70 hands. Perhaps that explains the preflop to some of you guys. I had a rather good indication that he was a reg just from the percent of hands he was raising and from what position etc. Also his sizing screamed reg. The only un reggish thing he had done was he limped utg like 2 times. So as far as the preflop i had been waiting for an opportunity to 3 bet because the more time goes by with me being a nit and not having 3 bet the higher my pf FE is. PF I raise $3 to take down a pot of 1.35 and I am confidant it will be profitable in a vacume. As far as the sizing comment i like the pf sizing and calling to set mine here would be a pretty big leak IMO. Flop probably should be a c bet, but my problem is on this flop i think it will take multiple barrels to get him off alot of his range.

Open limps - let alone UTG limps - are a ginormous tell that someone is not a tag/lag. Any player who's read pretty much any strategy - not to mention modern day forum strategy - has been told over and over and over "don't EVER open limp, and barely ever limp". The regs basically don't do it.

Sizing on the other hand, is barely a tell at all. All kinds of different players size in all kinds of different ways for all kinds of different reasons. Perhaps if you saw someone raise $1.50 after 2 limpers, then $1.25 after 1, then $1.75 after 3, you could start to think that they were employing the 4+1 rule, but even so, employing that rule is only small indicator of someone being a tag.

A tell that someone is not a tag at Stars 25NL is cold calling with KK, and then 4-betting. Some tags might do it, but you're much more likely to see something like that out of a fish. It's not as much of an indicator as the UTG limp, which is just about a signed affidavit of noobery, but it's still something that would tend to make think I was up against a fish.

I'm not sure how it is you had a good handle one his positional raise percentages after 60 hands, or his overall PFR without a hud, but If I saw someone running 18/14 over 60, and they open limped, I'd think "Huh, this tight passive player's stats are taking a while to converge", not "wow, this tag is open limping". Even if he is 20/16, and positionally aware, that's not that much of a light open.

Yes, set mining against 3bets is a massive leak, and so many of the micro-stakes tags do it. Most of them, by far, I would guesstimate. Take advantage of it, and raise bigger, knowing that you're setting yourself up to win more on the flop. The thing is, you say your image has you easily repping a big hand, so he's going to be even keener to mine a set against you, at thin odds. Unless you're wrong about your image, or how he's going to react to it, in which case he'll call you thin a lot, and you don't have all that much FE.

It might take 2-3 streets to get him off a lot of his range, but as long as you can get him off 40% of his range with a 2/3 PSB on the flop, it's profitable to do so. Not to mention you have outs.

In summary, it seems to me you're over thinking some things, and drawing some baseless conclusions.