Good Laydown?

I put the guy on a set, but he may have just been a maniac.

Table 'Khryses' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: nycxkp ($6.90 in chips)
Seat 2: joeydogdal ($12.25 in chips)
Seat 3: hummmer ($13.65 in chips)
Seat 4: andy609 ($6.75 in chips)
Seat 5: PokHerPlayer ($11.15 in chips)
Seat 6: damgoodpoker ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 7: MarkGreb ($7.85 in chips)
Seat 8: hitpoint ($7.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Funtana ($21.10 in chips)
andy609: posts small blind $0.10
PokHerPlayer: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andy609 [Ah Kh]
damgoodpoker: calls $0.25
MarkGreb: folds
hitpoint: folds
Funtana: folds
nycxkp: folds
joeydogdal: folds
joeydogdal leaves the table
hummmer: folds
andy609: raises $0.50 to $0.75
PokHerPlayer: folds
damgoodpoker: raises $0.50 to $1.25
andy609: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [Jh 5c Ks]
andy609: bets $0.35
damgoodpoker: raises $5.15 to $5.50
andy609: folds
damgoodpoker collected $3.30 from pot

Umm wtf

Im confused, he played this really fast for a set. He'd be taking my money if he hit it.

This guy belongs in the beginners forum. He's clearly very inexperienced.

Why are you playing 25NL with $6? Never fold this on the flop with that few chips... actually you probably should go allin preflop and then rebuy in time for the next hand.
If you dont have enough money for this level or you arent ready yet you should come play 5NL to learn a bit.
I would seriously consider moving down and getting some experience.

Keep posting hand historys but put then im the "hand history" section of the forum.

Originally Posted by Pelion

Keep posting hand historys but put then im the "hand history" section of the forum.

I moved this thread here. Maybe in a couple weeks I'll be able to shit all over his posts and not feel bad...

ah ok lol

call everytime.

He's raising because he hit a bit of flop and you have no chips so he figures he'll just put you all in. You probably have the best hand here.

Never play poker with less then 4/5 off afull buy-in.

Imagine you have a full stack. You raise to 5 times the big blind preflop. On the flop you bet 2/3 the size of the pot. After that you re-evaluate depending on what happens then.

Keep reading and posting. You've got a lot of learning to do!

25bb and 50bb buy-ins have merit.

I

Thanks for the feedback. I will keep posting. I am inexperienced, but I have been making money, which is actually quite exciting since you guys say I have so much to learn.

A few more specific questions:

I guess you guys probably think my preflop raise was too small, correct?

Looking back, I guess it would be pretty hard to put the raiser on pocket jacks or pocket kings since he didn't reraise preflop. Considering that the players at this level are pretty weak, I don't think pocket 5's were entirely out of the question. What do you guys put him on?

I've been playing 3 tables buying in $7 or 8, but maybe I would be better off playing one at $20 or so.

Originally Posted by Fnord

25bb and 50bb buy-ins have merit.

True but is this thread really the place to discuss that?

5's wont raise you like that preflop.

AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ are all possibles.

If your buying in low like that then just wait for a good hand and go all in preflop.

Originally Posted by andy609

I am inexperienced, but I have been making money, which is actually quite exciting since you guys say I have so much to learn.

bad news: judging by this hand and that you said you are inexperienced the reason you have been making money is because you havent played much but have gotten lucky.

good news: is yes you can become a winning player if you keep posting here and try to learn

Lemme post another hand here so you're not basing your assessment on a single hand. Maybe I played this one even worse.

PokerStars Game #3452764669: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
2005/12/27 - 18:34:46 (ET)
Table 'Strattonia' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: HennepinJoe ($7.55 in chips)
Seat 4: andy609 ($13.55 in chips)
Seat 5: jamessapp ($37.90 in chips)
Seat 6: LuckyBudgie ($27.45 in chips)
Seat 7: darsim ($24.15 in chips)
Seat 8: balboa108 ($7.25 in chips)
kurtice will be allowed to play after the button
andy609: posts small blind $0.10
jamessapp: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andy609 [Kh Ts]
LuckyBudgie: calls $0.25
Leastz joins the table at seat #9
darsim: folds
balboa108: calls $0.25
HennepinJoe: folds
kurtice leaves the table
andy609: calls $0.15
jamessapp: checks
*** FLOP *** [7h Kc Qs]
andy609: bets $0.40
jamessapp: folds
LuckyBudgie: folds
balboa108: raises $0.60 to $1
andy609: calls $0.60
*** TURN *** [7h Kc Qs] [3c]
andy609: checks
balboa108: bets $1
andy609: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [7h Kc Qs 3c] [Ah]
andy609: bets $0.60
balboa108: calls $0.60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
andy609: shows [Kh Ts] (a pair of Kings)
balboa108: mucks hand
andy609 collected $5.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.20 | Rake $0.30
Board [7h Kc Qs 3c Ah]
Seat 1: HennepinJoe (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: andy609 (small blind) showed [Kh Ts] and won ($5.90) with a
pair of Kings
Seat 5: jamessapp (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: LuckyBudgie folded on the Flop
Seat 7: darsim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: balboa108 mucked [Kd 9s]

That hand is like watching a couple drunks fight...

Hand 2. Preflop this is a pretty horrible hand especially with your stack. It is playable from late position but IMO it is raise or fold preflop. (usually fold).
There isnt alot you can do with such a short stack other than camp for good hands and play them very aggressivly.

Since you say you are inexperienced i will make a suggestion as to what i would do if I were you.

1) Move down to $5 or $10 buyin games where you can afford a full buyin. Read Bankroll managment 101

2) Read Preflop starting strategy and apply it to your game. Do not play ANY hands outside of this starting strategy.

3) play a few hours of 1 table no limit. Stay focused.

4) Read the Hand histories section of the forums. Look mostly at hands from $5 and $10 buyin games and try and understand what people are saying and apply it to your game. Post hand histories from your own games and think hard about why people are saying what they are saying. It isnt enough to just say oh... Fnord would have folded his pair of Jacks there so i should. You need to know WHY Fnord would have folded his pair of jacks so you can apply it to other situations.

5) After a few weeks you might think about starting to add tables. After a couple of months you might think about playing KT.

KT is a "trouble hand". It looks very pretty and can win you alot of fairly small pots when you are the only person who flops a pair of Kings. The problem is when you run into KJ, KQ, or AK and you lose alot of chips. I strongly suggest you stop playing hands like this until you are good enough postflop to figure out whenh you are behind and fold your pair of kings.

Hand 2 is better but there is still a lot of mistakes. Pelions advice is good. I would suggest an even tighter starting hand selection though. I play only pocket pairs, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, QJ. The less hands you play the less difficult decisions you will need to make postflop.

Thank you, Pelion.

What is the reason for only playing with a full buy-in? Just so people can't force you all-in?

so you can get paid off when you get a big hand or when your draws hit... otherwise your implied odds arent as good with a lot of hands.

And so you can actually learn to play poker. I think playing with a short stack really hurts your growth as a player. After youve learnt which hands to go allin with preflop and which ones to fold you cant learn anymore. Reads dont help you because once the flop comes down you are out of chips to make any more descisions.

In poker you make money by making correct descisions and by making opponents make incorrect descisions. Each chip is a descision waiting to be made. If you play with a tiny stack you arent having to make any postflop descisions which means you arent going to be able to take advantage of your opponents horrible postflop play. It also means you won't ever get any better at making these descisions.
If you start out with the assumption that you are a losing player you need to study/ move down in limits until you are winning.
If on the other hand you are a winning player then you will win much more with a bigger stack when worse opponents pay you off.

edit: I don't think it is necessary to play with a completely full stack but i certainly wouldnt get any lower than half a stack. At 25NL i would play with the max. buyin (if i could afford it) because the max buyin is only about 100BB. I play 5NL at pokerstars and the blinds there are only $0.01/$0.02 so buying in with $2 would be 100BB. Ill usually buy in for $5, sometimes $4 and very occasionaly $3 but i wont go below $3 because i think i have a big enough skill advantage over the other players to let myself play some real poker postflop.

Wow, no one likes the short stack. Bunch of action freaks here, huh?

i hate it when people buy in for the minimum then push or fold preflop

Originally Posted by Fnord

Wow, no one likes the short stack. Bunch of action freaks here, huh?

Fold, fold, fold, fold, fold stack someone, Fold, fold, fold, fold, fold stack someone and so on.