Giving yourself drawing odds

I know this topic may have been covered before but i just want to make sure im making a right play here. Lets say you flopped a flush draw and your first to act, and you bet 1/3 of the pot, you get one caller...the turn comes and its a rag card--now since your first to call should you bet the size of the pot so that so if you do get called your getting 4:1 on your money seeing it is 4:1 to hit your flush on the river? I've done this today a couple of times and won some huge pots and even when i missed my draws i still won mid pair because my opponent kept calling with low pair.

Not sure I understand you here. But personally, if I flop a flush draw first to act and feel like betting I bet more than 1/3 of the pot, I make a standard continuation of 1/2-2/3 of the pot. If I get called and my card doesn't come on the turn, and I feel like betting has a good chance of folding the opposition, I'm making a standard 1/2-2/3 pot bet again. Betting the pot seems to overdo it a little.
If your draw comes in 1/4 of the time, then theoretically betting 1/4 (or more including implied odds) of the pot on the turn gives you the odds to draw, but it is too weak and obvious if you start doing it on a regular basis. Checking can be a real option too, especially if you bet the flop then check-raise with your strong hands occasionally against opponents that would bet the turn after you checked. That way you might get a free card. Or check-raising the flop with a flush draw plus overs can be interesting.
A lot depends on the board, the limits, your opponents etc. Out of context difficult to say what's right.

Originally Posted by Off5th

I know this topic may have been covered before but i just want to make sure im making a right play here. Lets say you flopped a flush draw and your first to act, and you bet 1/3 of the pot, you get one caller...the turn comes and its a rag card--now since your first to call should you bet the size of the pot so that so if you do get called your getting 4:1 on your money seeing it is 4:1 to hit your flush on the river? I've done this today a couple of times and won some huge pots and even when i missed my draws i still won mid pair because my opponent kept calling with low pair.

If you bet the pot you are giving yourself 2:1 on your money if you get a caller. Your bet, a semi-bluff at best, has a lot of folding equity so it's hard to say whether or not it's the correct play. It depends a lot on the texture of the board, your opponent, your image, etc.

Also, you are about 4:1 AGAINST hitting your flush on the river. 1:4 to make it. You would be correct to call a bet in this situation that gives you 4:1 on your money based on pot odds. This would be a 1/3 pot sized bet.

Depends on the table, how your image is and how loose/tight post flop your opponents are. It all depends on the situation on whether control bets will work for any given situation.

If you raise preflop with something AQs and then you bet 1/3 to 1/2 pot on a 9 high board, most likely your bet is going to look like a standard continuation bet and you are likely to get raised by an opponent who has say TT or JJ on a safe board for them most likely pricing you out from getting to see the turn.

If you limped in or called a raise in position with something like JTs on the same board you are likely to get a check/call on your control bet or a small probe bet that will give you odds to call.

If the table is very loose post flop and will get a couple callers with over cards and middle PP's you can try to bet 2/3 pot to juice the pot a bit more because with more than one caller you will more than likely be getting the right odds depending on preflop betting.

Just keep in mind every situation is different and you dont want to try the same strategy every time a situation comes up, in NL being predictable is the worst trait to have.

my 2c

Originally Posted by Lukie

Also, you are about 4:1 AGAINST hitting your flush on the river. 1:4 to make it. You would be correct to call a bet in this situation that gives you 4:1 on your money based on pot odds. This would be a 1/3 pot sized bet.

Okay by the numbers could you explain this because someone gave me a different advice saying that if my opponent bets only 1/3 of the pot on the turn I'm not getting pot odds to call my flush draw, but in your case it is. So lets say the pot size by the turn is 120...I would either have to bet or call 30 to get my 4:1 odds is that correct???

Well, from a purely mathematical standpoint your friend would be correct based soley on pot odds. It would not be correct poker though.

If you have to call a 1/3 potsized bet, you are getting 4:1 on your money. If someone bets $30 into a $90 pot, as in your example, you have to call $30 into a now $120 pot, and you are getting exactly 4:1 pot odds.

On the turn, if you have seen 6 cards (4 on the board and 2 in your hand), and 4 are of the same suit, then the odds of making your flush on the river are 37:9 against.. very simple: 37 cards don't make your hand, 9 do. This is almost exactly 4:1 against.

You also have to factor in the fact that you may already have the best hand, especially if you paired one of your hole cards already. More importantly, you are going to have implied odds on the river if you do hit. How much obviously depends on your opponent, his cards, what he thinks your cards are, etc.

In practice, I've found that getting better then 3:1 here I would call with a nut flush draw. As most things with NLHE, it depends.