general question

effective stacks 100xBB

utg raises and you have a pair that is slightly infront of his utg raising range. If we 3-bet and he 4-bets we know we are crushed. He will rarely fold to our 3-bet. Do you 3-bet and push a small edge or call and set hunt? Personally i alternate between both but i usually just call.

when your slightly ahead of his initial range you will surely be behind whatever range continues to your 3bet. Hence 3betting is not "pushing a small edge" but putting in money dominated. Call and play poker instead.

May still be correct to fold if he bets larger than about 4bb.

One of the reasons general questions are sometimes criticised and hand histories used in preference is that the person asking the general question tends to overlook information that is just as critically important as that which he is asking about. In this case - raise size.

So yeah, you should not call for set value if it's raised to 10bb. You should not call for set value at all if the opponent plays fit or fold a lot and is extremely unlikely to pay you off if you hit your set. But you may be correct to play for a combination of steal and set value.

Given normal assumptions you are correct to call. And often also to fold the flop if you miss.

How often does he cbet? How often does he fold to 3-bet? What is his af? How often does he fold to a flop/turn check-raise? Are we in position or out of position? Do we have any recent history in pots?

I don't really want answers.. but you need to give a lot more info when you post questions.

Originally Posted by Erpel

May still be correct to fold if he bets larger than about 4bb.

One of the reasons general questions are sometimes criticised and hand histories used in preference is that the person asking the general question tends to overlook information that is just as critically important as that which he is asking about. In this case - raise size.

So yeah, you should not call for set value if it's raised to 10bb. You should not call for set value at all if the opponent plays fit or fold a lot and is extremely unlikely to pay you off if you hit your set. But you may be correct to play for a combination of steal and set value.

Given normal assumptions you are correct to call. And often also to fold the flop if you miss.

Lets assume the standard 4xbb raise. Opponent c-bets a lot say 70 percent+ He will call pot sized bets on all streets top pair or better regardless of kicker. With draws he will call atleast 1 pot sized bet.

Ok it's not the exact same situation as what i posted in the general question but here is an actual HH

Villain is a lagtard. vpip75 pfr 50. He will 4 bet shove pretty much his entire range if we 3-bet.

Absolute Poker (Cash Game): $0.01/$0.02 NL, 6 players
Tue, Jan 19, 2010 04:22:46 EST
Powered by Poker Academy (Format: 2+2 Forums)

B3 ($5.73)
B2 ($2.37)
B1 ($1.86)
BN ($16.77)
SB ($4.12)
Hero ($1.62)

BN is the button.

Precards:
SB posts the small blind $0.01, Hero posts the big blind $0.02.

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6 6 (6 active)
B3 calls $0.02, 2 folds, BN raises to $0.09, SB folds, [color=#ff8c00][i]

Just ask yourself if your betting for value, or as a bluff. What hands will call, what hands will raise and what hands will fold?

Originally Posted by jyms

Just ask yourself if your betting for value, or as a bluff. What hands will call, what hands will raise and what hands will fold?

Well i don't have enough hands on vill to get a reliable 4 betting range. But i do know that he never folded to a 3-bet and he always shoves. So we are 3-betting for value as his 4-bet shove range seems to be the same as his raising range and we are 54 percent versus his raising range.