Folding AA and KK

Hey all, I've been visiting this site for the past few days while I try to make some money on online casinos. A hand I played last night seems like a good hand to learn from. I am KryptoZ and rajoa later told me he folded pocket aces. He bet into me, but still had the smarts to fold, losing $14. The other guy was not so lucky:


***** Hand History for Game 658023345 *****
KryptoZ: probably wouldn't have called 10 with it i guess
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Mon Jun 07 22:09:48 EDT 2004
Table Pink panther (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: KryptoZ ( $41.20)
Seat 2: PUSKILLA ( $24.85)
Seat 3: moman31 ( $24.50)
Seat 4: pm00n ( $56.85)
Seat 5: HogVA ( $8.35)
Seat 6: JMoneyAA ( $28.15)
Seat 7: charlesmm ( $27.45)
Seat 8: rajoa ( $46.10)
Seat 9: Deuce_Ace ( $18.55)
Seat 10: sheepdog1203 ( $25)
rajoa posts small blind (0.25)
Deuce_Ace posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to KryptoZ [ Qd, Qh ]
Deuce_Ace: i was mad about the hearts thought i was screwed
sheepdog1203 calls (0.50)
KryptoZ raises (1.50) to 1.50
rajoa: yeah
moman31 folds.
pm00n folds.
HogVA folds.
JMoneyAA folds.
charlesmm folds.
rajoa raises (3.75) to 4
Deuce_Ace folds.
sheepdog1203 calls (3.50)
KryptoZ calls (2.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qc, 7h, Jh ]
rajoa bets (10)
sheepdog1203 calls (10)
KryptoZ raises (37.20) to 37.20
KryptoZ is all-In.
rajoa: cerap
rajoa folds.
sheepdog1203 calls (11)
sheepdog1203 is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2h ]
Creating Main Pot with $61.50 with sheepdog1203
Creating Side Pot 1 with $16.20 with KryptoZ
** Summary **
Main Pot: $61.50 | Side Pot 1: $16.20 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Qc 7h Jh 8c 2h ]
KryptoZ balance $77.70, bet $41.20, collected $77.70, net +$36.50 [ Qd Qh ] [ three of a kind, queens -- Qd,Qh,Qc,Jh,8c ]
PUSKILLA balance $24.85, sits out
moman31 balance $24.50, didn't bet (folded)
pm00n balance $56.85, didn't bet (folded)
HogVA balance $8.35, didn't bet (folded)
JMoneyAA balance $28.15, didn't bet (folded)
charlesmm balance $27.45, didn't bet (folded)
rajoa balance $32.10, lost $14 [ Ad As ] [ a pair of aces -- Ad,As,Qc,Jh,8c ]
Deuce_Ace balance $18.05, lost $0.50 (folded)
sheepdog1203 balance $0, lost $25 [ Kc Kh ] [ a pair of kings -- Kc,Kh,Qc,Jh,8c ]

If he folded Aces, than it was an amazing fold. A more callable flop raise or even a flat call might have gotten more money, as your opponents probably are drawing to runners or 2 outs. Really depends on their betting/calling behavior.

True, but it was a loose table and with the re-raise pre-flop and $10 bet after, I figured he was ready to bet everything.

Bet everything or call everthing?

It's my observation that the two are somewhat independent. Then again I'm just the resident scrub that posts way too damn much...

Considering he was willing to do neither, he escaped pretty well losing only $14. The other person was willing to call all-in though. With trips and the main better out, I was pretty confident.

if he did fold AA, that would have been an extremely bad fold, you could have easily held KK or AQ / AQ

I got into a home game. where I was on a streak. $2 max bet, I had the chip lead with about $50 in chips. I was delt KK and me and another got into a raising war. There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in. I had a scared feeling I knew what he had. An A came down on the flop and I easily called, but didn't re-raise. An A came down on the turn and I was confident that he could have quad Aces. Odds are too slim, so I raised once again, but he kept re-raising. I called on the river and he flipped over his quad aces.

I had a sneaky feeling at what he had, but I couldn't bring myself to fold my Ks.

I'd like to think I have learned a lot since then, but this could be an example of what not to do as well.

Originally Posted by Humphrind

There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.

translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!

Originally Posted by fishstick

Originally Posted by Humphrind

There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.

translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!

No limit, yes. Limit, check+calling this down might not be a horrible idea depending on how much you pumped the pot. You certainly must hit the breaks.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by fishstick

Originally Posted by Humphrind

There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.

translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!

No limit, yes. Limit, check+calling this down might not be a horrible idea depending on how much you pumped the pot. You certainly must hit the breaks.

opps - my bad. definitely would play differently in limit.

too bad he gave off with a tell. ha.. reminds me of KGB in rounders when he gets angry

gj kryptoz!
(btw i registered only now to say this)

Originally Posted by fishstick

Originally Posted by Humphrind

There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.

translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!

OK, I have to clarify something. I said it wrong earlier. After the turn brought a second A, I was confident that he COULDN'T have quad Aces. The chances are too slim. I typed in 'could' because I'm an idiot who doesn't proof-read.

As far as the tell, that's what made the hand so much easier to play.

This is a pretty tight player, so I wasn't thinking for a second that he has Ax, it had to be a pocket pair and it had to be Q or higher. I thought it might be Aces, until 2 of them came down, I was mostly check/calling the odds. (I had already put about $15 in the pot before the flop and I wanted to see it to the end)