Flopping the Nuts

First of all I'd like to say what a great site!
I've been playing a couple of months now and this site probably has the best community forum out there.

My first question is how do people play when they flop the nuts?

For example, suppose you have AK and the flop comes AAK and are first to act with one other player.
Obviously you are hoping your opponent has the other A or a K so you check. If they bet back at you do you simply call or raise?
Personally I call but not straight away as I believe the opponent will smell "Trap". Instead I think for a few seconds then call. Do you think this can make a difference?

How do other people play this? Sorry if this seems like an obvious play but I suppose some people could play it differently.

You slow play the nuts unless your nuts are vulnerable. You don't want to slow play yourself out of your nuts and into his nuts. That would be nuts. You want him to think he has nuts, when in reality your nuts are bigger than his nuts. You want him to cry when you show him the size of your nuts as you flop them on the table.

Welcome to FTR, drawman!

In answer to your question, it is very situation dependant.

For example, against a decent opponent, if you raise preflop (assuming you are playing tight) and then open check a flop of AAK, he's definitely going to think something is wrong and will probably check/fold out (assuming he hasn't also flopped a monster), so maybe leading out with a weak bet is best against this type of opponent.

Against a bet-happy numpty who is too stupid to make reads though, checking the flop and hoping for a bet is probably the best thing to do, if he does bet at you, it's entirely up to you whether to raise or not, you have to ask yourself if he will call a raise and still bet the turn or will he fold to a checkraise to be able to decide. Most of the time against this type of opponent I like to check/call the flop and check/raise the turn most times.

Against a call-happy numpty, I bet this down most times. If you know that if you check to him he isn't going to bet at you, just make weak bets on the flop and turn to assure he is going to call you down with his crappy hand. If he does raise your weak bet, you can assume he has flopped something juicy aswell, because this type of player raises very rarely, so you might be able to get him all in on the flop, but normally he'll just call you down with a wide range of hands, so just make some weak bets to assure that you will squeeze a few chips out of him.

Hope this helps.

Hey that's weird. One of my poker names is Numpty.

Something I've learned recently that has helped me alot, thanks to HOH volume 1, make sure you realize how your table is perceiving you and act accordingly when you slowplay.

Example, if I'm playing tight but got a rush of cards and won most pots without a showdown, the table is looking at me betting out playing alot of hands, so I do the same thing and make my standard bet/raise depending on position.

Think about your table image and playing accordingly and you will see alot more profit out of slowplaying.

*lesson and example all found in HOH volume1

if you act last, i would let him bet the hand and raise him hard on the turn or river only if there is no cards that can come to beat me.
if i act first, i will bet into him. he probably wont think i have it and call me down.

with a vulnerable nuts like AA and flop comes xxA then im going to lead out and bet into him, if he calls it, you have to figure out if the turn has helped him if he was drawing.. if its a blank, go ahead and push.

in limit, slowing playing is stupid with anything less than 4 of a kind.. most of the time your opponent will not put you on the nuts and you will get paid.

if you want to get sneaky with it, if your first to act, lead out and bet it, if he calls, check the turn, it will look like you were trying to buy the pot, if he bets, drop the hammer.. if he checks behind, drop the hammer on the river.. it looks like a bluff almost everytime.

Originally Posted by Element187

if you want to get sneaky with it, if your first to act, lead out and bet it, if he calls, check the turn, it will look like you were trying to buy the pot, if he bets, drop the hammer.. if he checks behind, drop the hammer on the river.. it looks like a bluff almost everytime.

This is something you should do a couple of times anyway to keep your opponents guessing and honest. Good players will do this against you and take your stack when you bet the turn hard.

You don't want people thinking that when you check it's a green light to steal the pot.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Hey that's weird. One of my poker names is Numpty.

I like the reverse psychology. :P

I think that when you are lucky enough to get played back to, I would wait a while and then call. The delay, followed by a call,
makes your opponent think that you had a hard decision not folding the hand. This almost always ends with a big bet on the river by the opponent, which you will raise big and get paid. I think the effect on the opponent's thinking is more variable with a pause followed by a raise, as he thinks that you are just pondering how much of a raise he will call with his second best hand.

If your opponent is aggressive, give him an opportunity to bet into you. Like this:

***** Hand History for Game 2357290539 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Wed Jul 13 14:05:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 54840 (6 max) (No DP) (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: Josephla111 ( $27.82)
Seat 2: Josse_ ( $30.55)
Seat 3: Blue_Rocks ( $0)
Seat 4: osse64 ( $21.78)
Seat 5: Talent03 ( $24.40)
osse64 posts small blind (0.10)
Talent03 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Talent03 [ Qd, 2s ]
Josephla111 calls (0.25)
Josse_ calls (0.25)
osse64 folds.
Talent03 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qh, Qc, Qs ]
Talent03 checks.
Josephla111 checks.
Josse_ bets (1)
Talent03 calls (1)
Josephla111 raises (5) to 5
Josse_ folds.
Talent03 calls (4)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
Talent03 checks.
Josephla111 checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 9s ]
Talent03 checks.
Josephla111 bets (9)
Talent03 raises (18) to 18
Josephla111 calls (9)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $45.85 | Rake: $2
Board: [ Qh Qc Qs 8d 9s ]
Josephla111 balance $4.57, lost $23.25 [ 9h Td ] [ a full house, Queens full of nines -- Qh,Qc,Qs,9h,9s ]
Josse_ balance $29.30, lost $1.25 (folded)
Blue_Rocks balance $25, sits out
osse64 balance $21.68, lost $0.10 (folded)
Talent03 balance $47, bet $23.25, collected $45.85, net +$22.60 [ Qd 2s ] [ four of a kind, queens -- Qd,Qh,Qc,Qs,9s ]

** Dealing River ** : [ 9s ]
Talent03 checks.

major balls there

He knew he was going to come out firing on the river....
That's the only reason I could check there was if I was sure he would come out firing.

I love it. The board is QQQ8, and the guy holding 9T says "Hey, I'll semi bluff an inside straight draw on a trip board. Ya that's the ticket!"

and that's why we make money and they don't

Originally Posted by Greedo017

** Dealing River ** : [ 9s ]
Talent03 checks.

major balls there

I was fairly certain he would bet. Against a less aggressive opponent I would bet out but then I wouldn't expect to get a call.

Don't even worry about it. Focus on playing situations that occur more frequently.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by Rondavu

You slow play the nuts unless your nuts are vulnerable. You don't want to slow play yourself out of your nuts and into his nuts. That would be nuts. You want him to think he has nuts, when in reality your nuts are bigger than his nuts. You want him to cry when you show him the size of your nuts as you flop them on the table.

ROFL

POTD!

Originally Posted by Element187

if you act last, i would let him bet the hand and raise him hard on the turn or river only if there is no cards that can come to beat me.
if i act first, i will bet into him. he probably wont think i have it and call me down.

with a vulnerable nuts like AA and flop comes xxA then im going to lead out and bet into him, if he calls it, you have to figure out if the turn has helped him if he was drawing.. if its a blank, go ahead and push.

in limit, slowing playing is stupid with anything less than 4 of a kind.. most of the time your opponent will not put you on the nuts and you will get paid.

if you want to get sneaky with it, if your first to act, lead out and bet it, if he calls, check the turn, it will look like you were trying to buy the pot, if he bets, drop the hammer.. if he checks behind, drop the hammer on the river.. it looks like a bluff almost everytime.

if you have AA and the flop is xxA then a pair of exes is the nuts for the four of a kind
AA is now just a "RIDICULOUSLY STRONG HAND" but not the nuts
if you meant two different cards, say xyA

xx means any 2 cards.......if what u said was true then x would be the exact same card and therefore impossible.
xy = confusing.....xx=two blank unimportant cards

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

xx means any 2 cards.......if what u said was true then x would be the exact same card and therefore impossible.
xy = confusing.....xx=two blank unimportant cards

agreed.. if you want to get techincal about it .. say 2c = x

so xxA would be 2c, 2c, A

the dealer would be shot in the old west times.

What sucks about flopping the abs nuts is that you cant really profit from this as much as you could with something like hidden trips, eg. 22 in a AJ2 flop. With something like AAK you hope that another player in there has an ace. If not you giving ONE free card cant reallyhurt you, a free card might give somone a flush draw, or someone with JT or QJ could make a straight ( very longshot )

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Don't even worry about it. Focus on playing situations that occur more frequently.

-'rilla

This is the best answer.

Originally Posted by Element187

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

xx means any 2 cards.......if what u said was true then x would be the exact same card and therefore impossible.
xy = confusing.....xx=two blank unimportant cards

agreed.. if you want to get techincal about it .. say 2c = x

so xxA would be 2c, 2c, A

the dealer would be shot in the old west times.

No, if you get technical about it, since we're not stating the suit, it would be 2 = x

22A is the flop
the nuts is four of a kind twos