few troublesome hands

Hey, I haven't played for awhile and feel a bit rusty, was hoping I could get some help with some of these spots, thank you.


Hand 1:
Villan is a 27/25/5.4% 3b, he gives me little credit as earlier I shoved over his rather large 4bet with Q9ss and he called with JJ, he does not like to fold to my 3bets.


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($25)
Hero (SB) ($27.05)
BB ($25)
UTG ($23.29)
MP ($59.04)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
1 fold, MP bets $0.87, 1 fold, Hero raises $2.74, 1 fold, MP calls $1.99

Flop: ($5.97) 3, 8, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.47, MP calls $4.47

Turn: ($14.91) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $8, Hero raises $19.72 (All-In), MP calls $11.72

River: ($54.35) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $54.35

Hand 2:
Villan who squeezed is a 17/10/5%3b and squeezes 7% of the time. Normally preflop he opens 6x the BB and tends to over-value his hands. My main question is should I just fold pre after his squeeze or is K10cc playable enough IP 3 way.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($52.12)
MP ($48.29)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($24.21)
BB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 10
1 fold, MP bets $0.87, Hero calls $0.87, 1 fold, BB raises $3.74, MP calls $3.12, Hero calls $3.12

Flop: ($12.09) 7, 3, Q (3 players)
BB bets $9.06, 1 fold, Hero raises $21.01 (All-In), BB calls $11.95 (All-In)

Turn: ($54.11) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($54.11) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $54.11


Hand 3:
Villan is a 26/12/3%3b, obviously pre and flop are standard but with given stacks on turn is this just a standard shove or is C/C an option?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($17.55)
Button ($26.79)
SB ($28.61)
Hero (BB) ($24.84)
UTG ($28.74)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Button bets $1.12, 1 fold, Hero raises $3.48, 1 fold, Button calls $2.61

Flop: ($7.83) 3, 8, J (2 players)
Hero bets $5.87, Button calls $5.87

Turn: ($19.57) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $14.75, Button raises $17.19 (All-In), Hero calls $0.49 (All-In)

River: ($50.05) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $50.05


Hand 4:
Villan is a 31/20/5%3b, on the flop he seems to be repping very little, he 3bets AK pre and is repping a narrow range, is it too optimistic to think he folds QK/JK here given we can have AK. I shoved as I thought out fold equity to be enough and obviously having BDFD and a gutshot.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (3 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($25.30)
Hero (SB) ($24.41)
BB ($65.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, 7
1 fold, Hero bets $0.88, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2) K, 3, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BB raises $5.25, Hero raises $21.91 (All-In), BB calls $18.16

Turn: ($48.82) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($48.82) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $48.82


Hand 5:
Villan is a 36/14/14%3b but only over 34 hands. He does seem rather cally. Obviously pre and flop are standard, on the turn is it correct to say betting is bad because we don't often get worse to call however by C/R we have equity against pretty much anything he has.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($34.98)
Button ($23.94)
SB ($29.48)
Hero (BB) ($37.54)
UTG ($23.76)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Button bets $1.12, 1 fold, Hero raises $3.48, 1 fold, Button calls $2.61

Flop: ($7.83) 7, Q, K (2 players)
Hero bets $5.87, Button calls $5.87

Turn: ($19.57) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $9.78, Hero raises $19.56, Button calls $4.56 (All-In)

River: ($48.25) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $48.25


Hand 6:
Villan is a 17/13/5%3b. Preflop is standard and flatting the flop keeps his worse aces/bluffs in and allows for the 36/5 fish to put money into the pot.
On the turn obviously we have to call and it seems standard but are we ever that good here?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($23.37)
SB ($23.26)
Hero (BB) ($68.29)
UTG ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A
1 fold, Button bets $0.50, SB calls $0.38, Hero raises $2.25, Button calls $2, SB calls $2

Flop: ($7.50) 10, A, A (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.75, Button calls $3.75, SB raises $8.75, Hero calls $5, 1 fold

Turn: ($28.75) Q (2 players)
SB bets $12.01 (All-In), Hero calls $12.01

River: ($52.77) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $52.77


Hand 7:
Villan is a 44/36/6.7%3b, Pre is standard, is flop fine? And on the turn I was rather unsure what to do.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($20.15)
Button ($24.96)
Hero (SB) ($25)
BB ($65.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 9
UTG bets $0.87, 1 fold, Hero raises $3.12, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.37

Flop: ($6.73) 5, 10, 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $5.04, UTG calls $5.04

Turn: ($16.81) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $16.72 (All-In), UTG calls $11.87 (All-In)

River: ($40.55) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $40.55

I haven't played shorthand in a few months so I may be rusty but here's my take:

Hand 1: Given reads, looks ok. I'd probably be tempted to c/c it down, though.
Hand 2: Pre is iffy and depends on whether or not you have a large sample on the squeezy guy and how wide MP is raise/calling. Default would be to fold to the squeeze though, for me.
Hand 3: My biggest issue is bet sizing here. Either bet smaller or bigger on flop. If you want to get it all in on the turn, then bet bigger or otherwise go for a 1/3-1/2 PSB. Personally I bet like $3 on the flop. It's not very wet and you have a blocker for the flush draw.
Hand 4: Too thin, I think - I doubt he folds TP2K, maaaaaybe KJ. More reads, like AFq would be good here. If he's raising a lot of flops then obviously the 3bet might be ok.
Hand 5: Bet size on flop again is kinda weird. You have like 0% fold equity on turn, which makes the shove not so good? I'm not sure. I would like it a lot more if there was more money behind.
Hand 6: Wow this sucks. This has to be TT, AT? I don't know at what point we have to fold though. I'd probably loose a stack here, too.
Hand 7: I might c/c down here. Depends on his AFq, ofc. If I bet, I bet way smaller on flop. Like $2.50 or less.

with hand 3 I just clicked the 3/4 pot button on flop and the turn was a mistake, i had less than PSB left but didn't drag the bar to the end hence why I had that tiny amount left.

Will post more when I've got a few more replies and get the AFq for you

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($52.12)
MP ($48.29)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($24.21)
BB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 10
1 fold, MP bets $0.87, Hero calls $0.87, 1 fold, BB raises $3.74, MP calls $3.12, Hero calls $3.12

Flop: ($12.09) 7, 3, Q (3 players)
BB bets $9.06, 1 fold, Hero raises $21.01 (All-In), BB calls $11.95 (All-In)

Turn: ($54.11) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($54.11) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $54.11


this one bothers me the most... am i missing something here???? what were you trying to accomplish here? Were you trying to push him out of the pot or were you really crossing your fingers and praying for a turn or river to save your ass????

Pre is what I was questioning, now that we got to where we were on the flop folding seems bad and calling and folding a turn given the pot odds would be even worse no?

edit: fwiw i've seen squeezer in 3bet pots cbet/fold or cbet/give up so it would not be out of the question for him to B/F here although not a huge amount of the time to make this shove +EV, I mean we got club outs and a K is good a small % of the time.


Agreed its not a great hand hence why I'm looking for advice, fold pre may be the best.

well fold pre is questionable.. i myself against certain opponents would play the hand for the flop, i can see that at this point you were partially committed due to the raise, but I don't think you were committed enough to make such a bet.

BB here is re-raising knowing he's out of position on the flop, his hand has to be some what honorable as I'm sure he's assuming Mp is calling and he's hoping to drag you along as well. True he could have missed the flop, but let's say we put AQs in his range, or heck, even A9s, he could very well be sitting on the same draw as you.
17/10 is not incredibly loose and his raise does deserve some attention.

Me personally this is a fold on the flop all day long. his bet is not worth enough value to call, and deffinitly doesn't constitue a raise. What range can you beat without a fith Club? Not even a Q9o+ nor Ax+...

Originally Posted by Luke999

Pre is what I was questioning, now that we got to where we were on the flop folding seems bad and calling and folding a turn given the pot odds would be even worse no?

edit: fwiw i've seen squeezer in 3bet pots cbet/fold or cbet/give up so it would not be out of the question for him to B/F here although not a huge amount of the time to make this shove +EV, I mean we got club outs and a K is good a small % of the time.


Agreed its not a great hand hence why I'm looking for advice, fold pre may be the best.

I think post flop is ok given reads/high c-bet%, fwiw.

bump

hand 1 - id prefer to b/f the turn without any reads, Im not sure what the c/r is trying to accomplish, but if the dynamic that he thinks youre shoving air is strong then its probably fine. wouldnt mind a slightly bigger 3bet pre

hand 2 - the call pre is quite bad, you can 3bet this hand pre but calling the 3bet isnt ideal. also a fun play here if hes going to be squeezing a lot is calling the pfr on the button with AA or KK, then when he squeezes u shove. now once he sees that u can balance your range by doing this in a spot where you have something like this K10s when he could be weak ish. Masongamble doesnt understand much, the flop iis obviously fine as played pre.

hand 3 - this is standard, his stats suggest he sucks and c/c is dumb since he can check behind draws/worse n only bets what beats u but calls with worse. its not like your always ahead here but u need to shove vs his range

hand 4 - its pretty thin (dont show the result that he called) i dont really feel like you need to do this unless you have a read that he can fold decent hands (unlike most at these limits) just do this with a fd or open ended instead

hand 5 - open shove the turn maybe? def better then c/shove with 0 fe... FE of Kx + you have outs when he calls?

hand 6 - turn is probably a fold...

hand 7 - meh, this guy has horrible stats, it cud be fine depending on what kind of a fish he is


In general here are some things:

1. 3bet bigger, stop just clicking the 3x button, its too small, ESPECIALLY vs more than one opponent.

2. when betting flops think about turn and river bet-sizing, you dont always have to bet 1/2 or 3/4 or pot, u can bet 1/4 pot in the right spot

3. shoving has more fold equity then check shoving with 100bb stacks in 3bet pots, u are shoving without enough chips left.

hand 7 -

Hand 6:

With SPF of 3, and then putting in 50% of effective stacks on the flop, are we frickin' seriously thinking about folding turn? How did we conclude that SB's range as narrow as TT,AT???

lotta hands so stopped after the first two:

hand1, seems fine so long as villain is just as stubborn when he opens from MP as he is when he opens from LP. also, better postflop reads would be good for the stackadonk on the turn, but it's my preferred play in this spot against most stubborn/aggro regs.

hand2, his squeeze sizing is plenty big enough to price us out. a cool play here is to back raise some of the time, but i'd like better reads on MP to do that, and it's not like 7% squeeze is way out of line or anything, so prolly just fold.

hand 3, meh he sucks, so a shove allows him to do something retarded. obv a different story if he's good

hand 6 cont;d
we need 22.7% equity to b/e calling the push.
vs tt, at+ we have 36% equity
wat am i missing?
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that he doesnt have AJ or AK? but ya its not like its a leak as played and i didnt realize the stove would be that close

You're saying that the villain can never take a c/r flop, push turn line with AJ or AK?

Originally Posted by eugmac

Hand 6:

With SPF of 3, and then putting in 50% of effective stacks on the flop, are we frickin' seriously thinking about folding turn? How did we conclude that SB's range as narrow as TT,AT???

There was probably little point in posting as nobody is folding here really, but with his stats he is getting in AK pre. After I bet the flop after 3betting and a calling station calls, he is never raising this flop light (or should not be) with a calling station in. AQ/AT/TT are all in his range here, AJ is too but i'm not sure he ever has A2-A9 here and it just felt dirty. But given that villan is a nit, there is a calling station in the pot and we 3bet pre (think of what our range is in his eyes) it seemed closer to a fold but meh.

Originally Posted by eragotte

hand 1 - id prefer to b/f the turn without any reads, Im not sure what the c/r is trying to accomplish, but if the dynamic that he thinks youre shoving air is strong then its probably fine. wouldnt mind a slightly bigger 3bet pre

He gives us little credit, surely B/F will be awfull on such a board especially given the odds I'll have on calling. I checked because he'd often take a stab at the pot on the turn and he'd often give away his hand on such a board with his bet sizing, with his bet sizing I think there is so much shit in his range but he'd still call a shove as he doesn't really like to fold.

Originally Posted by eragotte

hand 5 - open shove the turn maybe? def better then c/shove with 0 fe... FE of Kx + you have outs when he calls?

I think what I was trying to get at is not fold equity, but the fact that his range for betting the turn is weaker than his range for calling the turn, not sure what others think on this.

For Hand 6, against {TT, QQ, AT, AJ, AQ} we have enough equity to call profitably, if you think AJ is in his range.

Originally Posted by kiwiMark

For Hand 6, against {TT, QQ, AT, AJ, AQ} we have enough equity to call profitably, if you think AJ is in his range.

He never does this with QQ/JJ EVER.

He also never has AT or AJ. AQ is debatable too.

How so?

'cause he's a 17/13 who flatted a 3b OOP. AQ/TT/QQ all seem to be varying degrees of possible to me, with TT being the hand that makes the most sense. there are so many things about this hand that make it very very surprising if and when he shows up with AJ.

all this being said, i don't think we can fold in this spot because we need SUCH little equity to call. we have enough equity even when we're behind so that it takes very few "wtf is that?" hands to make this a call. i would literally fold if the turn shove were 14.50, though.

He gives us little credit, surely B/F will be awfull on such a board especially given the odds I'll have on calling. I checked because he'd often take a stab at the pot on the turn and he'd often give away his hand on such a board with his bet sizing, with his bet sizing I think there is so much shit in his range but he'd still call a shove as he doesn't really like to fold.

ya its fine then because of the situation

I think what I was trying to get at is not fold equity, but the fact that his range for betting the turn is weaker than his range for calling the turn, not sure what others think on this.

editing my response:

so yes his range for calling is stronger, but this means you should bet in my mind because he is folding stuff that beats you. if he bets his range may be a bit weaker but it still all beats you! so there is a decent piece of FE in there u capture if you bet.

Originally Posted by eragotte

ya its fine then because of the situation



editing my response:

so yes his range for calling is stronger, but this means you should bet in my mind because he is folding stuff that beats you. if he bets his range may be a bit weaker but it still all beats you! so there is a decent piece of FE in there u capture if you bet.

If we assume he never folds better (I think this is a safe assumption given it's 25nl, and his stats are lol) then the only reason we would want FE here is literally to protect our hand. If we want to get it in here, I think a C/R line is better as it allows us to get it in with more equity against his range. (his range is wider to when we C/R here, than if we shove, as there are hands he will bet when checked too but fold if we shove - and we have good equity against all those hands that would do that.)

With the AK hand, that seems fine, I would assume at this limit people will overvalue hands and not completely understand relative hand strength to not think any A is the nuts here. You need so little equity on the turn here, and you always have equity if you are behind anyway.

Results for anybody interested:

Hand 1

Results:
Hero had 10, 10 (one pair, tens).
MP had 4, 4 (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: MP won $51.65

Hand 2

Results:
Hero had K, 10 (one pair, sevens).
BB had Q, Q (full house, Queens over sevens).
Outcome: BB won $51.41


Hand 3

Results:
Button had Q, J (two pair, Queens and Jacks).
Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Button won $49.50


Hand 4

Results:
Hero had 6, 7 (one pair, Aces).
BB had 4, 3 (two pair, Aces and fours).
Outcome: BB won $46.42


Hand 5

Results:
Button had J, J (straight flush, King high).
Hero had Q, A (flush, Ace high).
Outcome: Button won $45.85



Hand 6

Results:
SB had A, Q (full house, Aces over Queens).
Hero had K, A (straight, Ace high).
Outcome: SB won $50.17


Hand 7

Results:
Hero had 9, 9 (one pair, nines).
UTG had Q, Q (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: UTG won $38.55

Hand 1: Yeah I guess pre is fine. Your read that he doesn't like to fold 3bets vs. you is great but you should probably not post his stats unless you tell us his positional stats too. Flop fine. Turn is fine assuming he can show up with 66+ here.

Hand 2: Fold pre. I mean look at the flop you flop really well for your hand and I still am not happy about it. I assume we only have 9 outs. I mean I guess fine as played don't think we could just call and fold turn but this means we are almost always getting it in with a draw, usually only 9 outs too.

Hand 3: We really need postflop reads. I actually really hate that turn and probably c/f. RR bigger preflop.

Hand 4: Again we need postflop reads. His preflop stats make me ASSUME he's sort of passive actually which in turns makes me think he is bad and calls more with say 43s or will take it all the way with KJ+ after raising flop.

Hand 5: You keep saying obviously. I do not think preflop is obviously standard. I hate being OOP in this spot in a 3bet pot. Flop yes I would bet. Turn I think is fine.

Hand 6: Jusssssssssst barely a call on the turn. Villain's range is TT/AQ/AK.

Hand 7: Meh I'd bet around $4 on flop and probably c/f turn. With even JJ I'd like this play but I don't know we could even be behind a random Tx. Depends on how often he folds 3bets I guess.

Originally Posted by kmind

Hand 5: You keep saying obviously. I do not think preflop is obviously standard. I hate being OOP in this spot in a 3bet pot. Flop yes I would bet. Turn I think is fine.

You prefer flatting AQ OOP to a button raise then? I mean his stats are less than 150 hands but you can see he is very cally and his button range is going to be wide, he will be flatting so so many dominated aces and queens I don't see how this isn't standard.

Just a tip for the future but you should probably keep to posting 1-2 hands per thread. It really turns a lot of people off from replying.

Ok noted, cheers.

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Originally Posted by Luke999

You prefer flatting AQ OOP to a button raise then? I mean his stats are less than 150 hands but you can see he is very cally and his button range is going to be wide, he will be flatting so so many dominated aces and queens I don't see how this isn't standard.

To just a standard BU raise yes I like it but I have to believe his isolation range is narrower. If not then yes 3bet preflop. I think calling keeps in the limper a lot and we dominate the BU a lot more often than 3betting. Again, without a limper yeah 3bet.